Cafe business up in smoke (smoking ban closes restaurant)

The Citizen Auburn NY ^ | Friday, December 20, 2002 | By Mary Bulkot / Staff Writer

[Max McGarrity]

Your claims of money grab, 30% loss of sales, restauants closing, are pathetic straw men or just crying wolf.

Those aren't my claims and they are all true. How do you keep from walking into walls with your hands over your eyes so you won't see the hard truth?

If you are a conservative, and being here on FR, I'd hope you are, how about this? How about we let free, taxpaying adults make their own decisions? Post a sign that an establishment welcomes smokers and let those workers who CHOOSE to work there work there and those patrons who CHOOSE to patronize the place patronize the place.

[supercat]

Flaunt/flout. Whatever.

I wasn't just being pedantic; I know I've read about people who used loopholes in the law to allow smoking (and thus stay in business). My question is whether any businesses have been able to openly disobey the law while staying in business.

[If the former is true--that businesses have worked to stay narrowly within the law--then your usage of "flaunt" would be odd but perhaps correct; the wording of the sentence would suggest "flout", but I don't know if that's factually correct].

[laredo44]

Thank you, sir. Please forgive me sir, your smoke has set off my asthma. I hope my wheezing doesn't bother you sir. I'll try to be quiet, sir. Thank you, sir. hahahahahahahahaha

Your wheezing appears pshcyosomatic as I do not smoke. Read the post. I said that anti-smokers intruded into a private property setting and made demands. Yes, I think they owe a courtesy to those enjoying their rightful existing situation. They could request. They could say, "Would you mind not smoking?" They could remove themselves. But they don't. The whine and stamp their feet like the babies they are. Worse, the give aid, comfort, and air cover to the would-be tyrannts gunning for all our rights. Do you seriously think it stops when smoking is banned? Keep laughing you pawn.

[laredo44]

Loss of a right? You can still purchase cigarettes and smoke them outdoors, we non-smokers, are just asking you to please not smoke in public rooms.

Why do you insist on calling them public rooms? They are not. They are someone's property. This is lying pure and simple. And it is used by those who want their way no matter the means to attain it. You should be ashamed to use such tactics.

[laredo44]

I think there are certainly some reasonable things the state can do to protect the citizens from the dangers of smoke.

What are those dangers for non-smokers? I'd like to know what you propose to protect me from.

[laredo44]

They simply don't trust us common folk with too much liberty.

So true, but it's just their neighbors that can't be trusted. For themselves, why pshaw, they can certainly be trusted. Censorship and prohibition, the songs of the hypocrite.

[laredo44]

It is the stringent claim that you have a right to smoke anywhere...

No one here is making that claim! What is wrong with you that you resort to lying in the attempt to make your point?

[SheLion]

I'm smoke-free since 1983 when I quit cold turkey.....

My Dad quit cold-turkey. He got up one morning, and was so disgusted with smoking, that he just quit. Never went back.

It's not for everyone!

[thepitts]

The decision to allow smoking or not should be left up to the individual business owner, Doug Devall said. Restaurant owners should be able to choose whether their establishment will be smoking or non-smoking.

Land of the free....not.

[Teacher317]

Headline should read : Selfish smokers put another business out because they can't go an hour without a cigarette

Yes, Americans should all be required to continue to frequent the same stores we always have, no matter how they change. We should also force those who do not want to go through airline security anymore to STILL fly on the major commercial carriers. It's OUR fault, after all, that United is going belly-up. Darn us, it's our fault that we didn't keep buying newly manufactured 13-mpg cars and 45-round gun magazines... even though they're no longer legal. What's a few felonies between friends, right? Thank Goodness for clear-headed thinking like yours, VRWC. Teach us all to love Freedom obedience the way you do so we can be good little subjects, too!

[SheLion]

Teach us all to love Freedom obedience the way you do so we can be good little subjects, too!

Some people just don't get it.

[Ditter]

No, my asthma is not pshcyosomatic, it is tobacco smoke induced. I rarely have it because I am very careful where I go. If there are smokers there, I leave. The one time at a banquet in a hotel ballroom, I asked some smokers to please not smoke because their smoke was drifting past my face, they said "screw you" & kept on smoking. They obviously weren't freepers because all here have said, if politely ask, they would stop smoking.

[MeekOneGOP]

My Dad quit also - about 5 years after I did. He was going to have a colon surgery to remove some polyps (like Reagan had), and they asked him to not smoke 24 hours prior (I think). He had the surgery and decided to just not pick 'em up again. He tells me it was easy for him. I'm not sure if I really believe that, because it was he** for me when I quit. Of course, he's never lied to me, and my brother tells the same story about his kicking the habit....

[laredo44]

My sympathies to you for your unfortunate condition, but I simply don't see why you would use that to attack the rights of others. Again, I'm speaking of property owners rights. It is simply a frightening abuse of power when local governments, responding to a vocal interest group proceeds to strip citizens of their rights. It is doubly disturbing when a ready remedy is available, namely the right of other restaurant owners to ban smoking and enjoy the patronage of second-hand smoke sufferers.

Just a guess since I have no first hand knowledge of the situation you experienced, but perhaps you suffered a backlash when those smokers refused to comply with your request. Perhaps their frustrations at being wrongly villified by rights grabbers boiled over and you bore the brunt.

[Ditter]

The "screw you" incident happened 7 or 8 years ago, long before all the current smoking bans started. As far as backlash is concerned, glad you brought it up, that is what the smokers are now experiencing from the non smokers who have held their tongues for 50 years or so.

[Max McGarrity]

I appreciate the correction--proper language is extremely important to me and I wasn't paying attention.

The only place I know that attempted to follow the letter of the law that allegely permits completely owner-operated (no employees) bars to welcome smokers is Lucky John's. John Johnson has been sued over and over and over by the "authorities" and I believe he finally gave in. Not sure of that, though. I was there a year or so ago and everyone at the bar was smoking happily but it's quite a distance from me and I don't frequent bars much anyway.

[Max McGarrity]

Beautiful. Who do we think we are, anyway?

[Ditter]

I forgot to speak to the property rights issue. When a person opens a restaurant where they will be serving the public, don't they have to first get a permit from the Dept of Health? Doesn't that permit give the Dept of Health the right to regulate the way things are done in that restaurant? The water has to be hot, the cooler has to be cool, the utensils have to be sprayed with disinfectant, the employees have to be healthy, wear a hairnet & not smoke, etc. The diningroom is also regulated, it must be smoke free if the local authorities say so.

We have dogs & cats at our house, it has happened, on occasion, that a plate is put on the floor for the animals to finish. The Dept of Health can't say a damned word because my kitchen & diningroom are 'private property' in a way that a restaurant, designed to serve the public, is not.

I like talking to you laredo, because you are polite. The others will be coming to tear me up now, just watch. They will all refuse my dinner invitations now that they know who washes our plates. LOL

[VRWC_minion]

Do you believe that anti-smokers have the right to make such demands?

Of course they do.

[VRWC_minion]

That is what was happening before the antis started lying, misrepresenting, and scaring the he!! out of everyone that's too lazy to do a little true research.

I agree.