Alien Ideas: Christianity and the Search for Extraterrestrial Life

CRISIS magazine via CERC ^ | BENJAMIN D. WIKER

[Quix]

Great review of the Lewis Masterpiece.

I think folk would profit reading that one regularly.

I should go through it again.

[Vinnie_Vidi_Vici]

Everyone knows that the "Greys" are the loose cannons in the ET community!

[stuartcr]

I did not say that I didn't believe that a man named Jesus died by crucifixion. I said that I did not believe in resurrection of truly dead people, and virgin birth. I think that you will find throughout history, that there are/were witnesses to many events that either did not happen, or upon closer scrutiny, that they may have happened differently than first believed. Please have the courtesy to not lecture me.

[Quix]

WRONG.

Certainly John was an eyewitness.

All the disciplies saw Jesus after his death.

There was ample eyewitness testamony.

And extensive eyewitness testamony if one cares to be a bit of an honest detective. No. I won't elaborate. Search it out, if you wish. More than hints have been given.

[Quix]

It's always been interesting to me how little capacity or personal insight atheist etc. folk have at seeing such inherent contradictions.

We put food in one end instead of the other because it make sense. It is life giving, productive etc.

time plus chance microseconds later would always [given the evident time considered] turn into

tim)&)(*&^$YDKJH(_&( KJHLKIUYRO)*(&Y)(DFHhl;

or some such.

which is back to giving you roses = shooting you.

Well said post. Thanks.

[gitmo]

The first two are great. The last got a little dark, though.

[Quix]

If we don't know the structures and parameters of such other possible worlds and cultures,

how can we know

the parameters of God's relationship to them?

We can certainly postulate things about God's side given His evident Nature. Sacrificially Loving is one highly probably aspect of His side of such a relationship.

And, He's said that God would that no one perish eternally. We don't really know therefore what to that. He still insists on free-will for man. And He clearly has an interest in protecting Heaven from pollution and avoiding forcing man into Heaven against his will.

But I'd hate to have to try and speculate on point of death what God's relationship parameters were with other ET civilizations. Most people on earth seem to have no clue about His parameters regarding man on this planet.

That leaves plenty of work cut out for us as is.

[Quix]

I would think that were Salvation be necessary for such ET civilizations . . .

The ONCE AND FOR ALL of Christ and THE CROSS should be sufficient.

That also might partially or totally explain why so many [70 different ones by some accounts] ET races have been observing the planet for evidently so long. The crux of eternal existence for ALL of creation may have been weighing heavily on the fulcrum of THE CROSS.

[gitmo]

I agree. I was about to post the same thing, albeit somewhat less eloquently.

[Quix]

That's correct, depending on how you define "John". I'm assuming that none of the eyewitnesses produced written documents that survive. Nor do I find it likely that any part of the new Testament was written down at all by any of the eyewitnesses.

Others may do a better job--but the above paragraph has been proven conclusively wrong--and wrong a number of times--not just with a tiny fragment here and there.

We definnitely have pages from AT LEAST John written in the lifetimes of the eyewitnesses.

Perhaps you fail to recall that John died of old age having survived being boiled in oil and exiled to Patmos where he scribed THE REVELATION.

IT APPEARS TO ME that your convictions are based on convenience rather than on evidence or lack of evidence. You seem to have concocted a theology that affords you the convenience to do what you wish and construe a comfortable theology accordingly--as you wish.

It must be very convenient not having to have the GOOD HOUSEKEEPING OF HEAVEN SEAL OF APPROVAL . . . if more than a bit precarious.

[Quix]

But MOST PEOPLE with sufficient mental horsepower

CAN

FAIRMINDEDLY consider evidence.

Of course, having the ability and doing so are 2 different matters.

God has a big investment and priority in providing sufficient evidence without forcing belief.

Sight removes faith.

When you sit down and the chair holds you, you likely have no more use (for the time being) for faith that the chair will hold you up.

God requires faith as a major enduring component in our walk with Him. It seems to have something to do with trust, submission, abandonment to HIS LORDSHIP, SUPREMACY. Perhaps He wants to prevent another satanic rebellion in the uper eschelons. Whatever His reasons, it is His ball and His rules. And a chief rule is FAITH. So He persistently seems dedicated to providing SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE FOR FAITH without so much that faith is no longer required.

HOWEVER, The Bible seems to indicate that in our end times era, He will be wholesale laying aside such a priority much of the time. His demonstrations of His power, Majesty, grandeur, authority will clearly be awesome beyond what we can presently imagine.

There are rumblings that He's getting very close to the beginning of that series of demonstrations. We shall see.

[Quix]

It is one of the facts of life that all our faiths are nothing more than faith.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh but . . .

That statement of yours is enormously faith filled statement.

There's exceedingly INSUFFICIENT PERSPECTIVE AND INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE for you to make such an all encompassing statement. It HAS TO BE filled, at least pot marked, with faith. Evidently it is faith in your own intellectual supremacy or some such. But it is a type of faith, nevertheless.

[Quix]

"Your beliefs cannot be more than faith, as nothing about God or our beliefs, can be proven. It's still faith."

HOWEVER, WHAT SEEMS TO ESCAPE YOU IS

That this statement of yours above is ALSO A STATEMENT OF FAITH.

IT MAY WELL NOT BE TRUE! YOU DON'T HAVE SUFFICIENT ALL ENCOMPASING EVIDENCE OR SUFFICIENT ALL KNOWING PERSPECTIVE TO BE ABLE TO SAY SUCH A STATEMENT APART FROM FAITH in it's "validity."

Protesting that it is a statement of faith would make you out a fraud. I sure hope you can see it!

[Quix]

I THINK the cosmology that's more eager to believe in ET's than God is predictable.

The ET's have asserted [so far] no insistance [in most cases] that the victims rigorously change their behaviors [apart from Whitley Strieber giving up ice cream because the changes in his body they were causing would make ice cream deadly--I think it was Strieber].

At least the ET's have not routinely gone on record against screwing around every night and twice on Saturday; infanticide; undermining your co-worker so you get the promotion; lying to look better temporarily; etc. etc. etc.

God, particularly Jesus' expression on THE GODHEAD, is an entirely other matter. We are enjoined to TAKE EACH THOUGHT CAPTIVE to the standard of His Love and Truth. Quite a challenge, that.

ET's are much easier on our psyche's, our arrogance and our selfish, destructive, greedy behaviors.

[Quix]

GIVEN HIS GODLINESS,

His perspective on what is RIGHT/WRONG, TRUE/FALSE would have decided all the fuzziness instantly.

So, any proposed generosity of divergeant beliefs would not be based on HIS ambiguities. He can hold all manner of things in tension but ambiguity is not part of His Nature or reality as near as I can detect or discern.

If you are saying He would be generous to divergeant theologies because of His Loving Nature, that too would of necessity have serious limits.

How Loving is it to encourage/support someone in a notion that is hostile at it's foundation to the LOVING TRUTHs of the ONE TRULY LOVING AND ONE TRULY ALMIGHTY GOD? God is not into supporting lies, deceptions, half-truths, willful-ignorance--even in the name of generosity and Love.

[Quix]

Such intense negative emotions tend to cloud reason and complicate clear, simple and mutually respectful dialogue.

I don't see that anyone on the whole of FR has sufficient Godliness to be haughty.

As all know, I can get strident, too. But I'm trying to wean myself except in rare, exceedingly warranted cases. It rarely if ever assists in dialogue or understanding.

And if it is not dialogue and understanding we are about, then perhaps a soap box at the nearest large intersection would be a better posting place.

[Quix]

We all get shown to be wrong sooner or later. And at times, we all can't stand it at some level. And at times, we all act out in our own way to greater or lesser degree.

I don't know that an 'ibid' can follow but anyway . . .

Such intense negative emotions tend to cloud reason and complicate clear, simple and mutually respectful dialogue.

I don't see that anyone on the whole of FR has sufficient Godliness to be haughty.

As all know, I can get strident, too. But I'm trying to wean myself except in rare, exceedingly warranted cases. It rarely if ever assists in dialogue or understanding.

And if it is not dialogue and understanding we are about, then perhaps a soap box at the nearest large intersection would be a better posting place.

[Quix]

Quite so.

And sometimes the boneheadedness leaps at me from my mirror.

Blessings to you and your closest Loved ones this season and new year.

[Quix]

I presuppose nothing about God.

I disagree with your assessment of yourself.

You presuppose that He will not care a bit whether you follow His requests/demands for your relationship with Him or your own.

Perhaps you presuppose that you cannot know with sufficient proof enough precision about His expectations of you to bother trying to fulfill them.

You seem to presuppose that your [to my notion] extremely detached--150' pole relationship with God is more than sufficient and will not offend nor annoy nor grieve Him in the slightest.

I'll stop there. But I suspect I could tease out several more presuppositions on your part about God and about your relationship/precarious relationship/non-intimate relationship/non-relationship with Him.

Probably others hereon could as well.

I almost wonder if your mirror is shattered. Perhaps investing in a new one would be worth it.

[Quix]

God can do anything.

God is all powerful. Some people don't do windows. God doesn't do nonsense.

The old bit about could God create a rock so big God couldn't move it--is nonsense.

God has better things to do than be the least bit bothered by nonsense.