Alien Ideas: Christianity and the Search for Extraterrestrial Life

CRISIS magazine via CERC ^ | BENJAMIN D. WIKER

[exmarine]

And that brings me to the central point of the anthropic principle, the notion that the balance of fundamental forces, so finely tuned at such improbable ratios, is essential to our intelligent life manifesting in the universe and that manifestation may be the reason the forces are so tuned ... so the universe may become aware or be sensed. Cosmologists apply the anthropic notion as a means to shortcut their search for a unifying theory of everything, kind of like peaking at the answer to a calculus problem then backing up in the calculations to find the proper equational flow.

They will not find a unifying theory in a closed universe. That is precisely what drove Di Vinci bananas - and Kant - and Nietszche. Starting from Man (rationalism), the only conclusion one can come to is that men are mere machines (time+matter+energy+chance). If men are machines, then the mannishness of man is excluded; if the mannishness of man is excluded, then all of our thoughts, emotions, desires, hopes, dreams - are mere meaningless matter in motion, and nothing has any value or meaning. Nietszhe had to come to this conclusion and went insane as a result. You see, naturalists live lives of hopeless contradiction and endless dichotomy. Naturalists/atheists/rationalists insist that men are machines, but then they go home and hug their wives and love their children...as if a wife or children have intrinsic value - which they can't possibly within their worldview! It's a hopeless inescapable dichotomy! Indeed, if men are machines, then cruelty and non-cruelty must be equal! Yes, there is a God and only God can give meaning to this universe and this life.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Permanent death and non-virginal birth are obvious on a daily basis.

More's the pity.

[stuartcr]

The God I believe in is the only God there is, I do not attempt to define God or His actions. My faith is based on nothing substantial, only a belief.

[A.J.Armitage]

Not a single document written by any of those eyewitnesses exists.

You're assuming the Book of John was writen by someone other than John.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Excellent points, every one.

[stuartcr]

I'm not sure what you meant by this.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The unhappy side of life is evident every moment of every day.

But so is the Godly side. Some just don't see it.

More's the pity.

[babaloo999]

If there are other populations, would they require salvation also?

God's love and the promise of salvation is available to all in His universe.

[MHGinTN]

There is a fanscinating concept contained within the notion of 'the collapse of the wave function': For the many to collapse into the one, in what realm of the universe does the 'communication' occur which allows for the many to coalesce into one? The spacetime for this communication is by definition outside our sensing and we merely receive the results and can calculate the occurrence statistically. einstein touched on this notion with his questioning of action at a distance relating to quantum theory.

[MHGinTN]

einstein = Einstein ... such a gross error. I'm ashamed to have made it.

[stuartcr]

Birth and death are facts of life, whether these events are considered happy or sad, are relative.

[stuartcr]

Why do you believe salvation is necessary? From what is the salvation delivering us?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

My faith is based on nothing substantial...

You seem proud of that.

There really is a universe-full of knowledge that substantiates the Christian faith.

For all those who avail themselves of it.

[exmarine]

Quantum theory may apply to sub-atomic particles, but it does not apply to morality, or truth. Some things are constant (gravity, speed of light, hubble constant, laws of motion, law of non-contradiction, etc.) and without acknowledging this, we cannot live effective lives. Antithesis (not syncretism) is the basis for a true unifying theory: A leaf is green, not red; if I jump off a buidling I will fall to earth; I exist as opposed to not existing. Life is chock full of either/or propositions, and without antithesis, Newton would not have been able to come up with any of his breakthrough theories.

[exmarine]

Is it not true that phsycists now believe there are at least 10 dimensions in our universe. At least 6 of these are inferred. God exists outside of the dimensions we can see. Is. 57:15: "I am He who inhabits eternity." Eternity is a place, not time going on forever - a dimension outside of the dimension of time that we cannot see or directly detect, and that is where God dwells. That is how the God of the bible can see the beginning from the end.

[exmarine]

Why do you believe salvation is necessary? From what is the salvation delivering us?

From God Himself. YOu are being saved from judgment by Holy God who will hold you accountable for your moral error. All humans have moral error. There is a difference between guilt feelings and true moral guilt. Whether or not you feel guilty, you have true moral guilt in the eyes of God. That is why you need a Savior. The standard is absolute perfection, and only the Savior was perfect, and therefore, only He can atone for the sins of mankind.

[js1138]

You're assuming the Book of John was writen by someone other than John.

That's correct, depending on how you define "John". I'm assuming that none of the eyewitnesses produced written documents that survive. Nor do I find it likely that any part of the new Testament was written down at all by any of the eyewitnesses.

There's a lot of talk of love on this thread, but the God described by some here -- as one that would condemn skeptics -- sounds a lot like my image of Satan than of a loving God. I might add that I don't find in the words of Jesus, much demand for theological purity. In my opinionn, the demand for faith in a specific historical interpretation has been tacked on to Christianity by the usual crowd of power hungry hypocrites who always seem to infest churches.

[exmarine]

I'm assuming that none of the eyewitnesses produced written documents that survive.

There's no question about it. The majority of Paul's epistles (authorship and dates of authorship are not in doubt) are examples. See 1 Corinthians chap. 15 (written 51 AD):

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

This was written less than 20 years after the crucifixion.

[stuartcr]

That knowledge is not substantiated, it's believed..... faith.

[exmarine]

There's a lot of talk of love on this thread, but the God described by some here -- as one that would condemn skeptics -- sounds a lot like my image of Satan than of a loving God. I might add that I don't find in the words of Jesus, much demand for theological purity.

You are judging God by human standards. A sheep looks very white on a green hillside. But when it snows, the sheep looks very dirty against the pure white snow. God's perspective is not the same as yours, and God created all and knows all. I will yield to His perspective.