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To: A.J.Armitage
You're assuming the Book of John was writen by someone other than John.

That's correct, depending on how you define "John". I'm assuming that none of the eyewitnesses produced written documents that survive. Nor do I find it likely that any part of the new Testament was written down at all by any of the eyewitnesses.

There's a lot of talk of love on this thread, but the God described by some here -- as one that would condemn skeptics -- sounds a lot like my image of Satan than of a loving God. I might add that I don't find in the words of Jesus, much demand for theological purity. In my opinionn, the demand for faith in a specific historical interpretation has been tacked on to Christianity by the usual crowd of power hungry hypocrites who always seem to infest churches.

337 posted on 12/20/2002 10:07:51 AM PST by js1138
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To: js1138
I'm assuming that none of the eyewitnesses produced written documents that survive.

There's no question about it. The majority of Paul's epistles (authorship and dates of authorship are not in doubt) are examples. See 1 Corinthians chap. 15 (written 51 AD):

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

This was written less than 20 years after the crucifixion.

338 posted on 12/20/2002 10:13:12 AM PST by exmarine
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To: js1138
There's a lot of talk of love on this thread, but the God described by some here -- as one that would condemn skeptics -- sounds a lot like my image of Satan than of a loving God. I might add that I don't find in the words of Jesus, much demand for theological purity.

You are judging God by human standards. A sheep looks very white on a green hillside. But when it snows, the sheep looks very dirty against the pure white snow. God's perspective is not the same as yours, and God created all and knows all. I will yield to His perspective.

340 posted on 12/20/2002 10:15:49 AM PST by exmarine
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To: js1138; RnMomof7; exmarine
but the God described by some here as one that would condemn skeptics...

MATTHEW 7:14 "Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Only God knows who is saved and who is condemned. But as creations of God, we each live out the life He has given us.

351 posted on 12/20/2002 11:06:09 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: js1138
"I might add that I don't find in the words of Jesus, much demand for theological purity."

John 14:6 Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but by Me."

356 posted on 12/20/2002 12:10:31 PM PST by MEGoody
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To: js1138
That's correct, depending on how you define "John". I'm assuming that none of the eyewitnesses produced written documents that survive. Nor do I find it likely that any part of the new Testament was written down at all by any of the eyewitnesses.

Others may do a better job--but the above paragraph has been proven conclusively wrong--and wrong a number of times--not just with a tiny fragment here and there.

We definnitely have pages from AT LEAST John written in the lifetimes of the eyewitnesses.

Perhaps you fail to recall that John died of old age having survived being boiled in oil and exiled to Patmos where he scribed THE REVELATION.

IT APPEARS TO ME that your convictions are based on convenience rather than on evidence or lack of evidence. You seem to have concocted a theology that affords you the convenience to do what you wish and construe a comfortable theology accordingly--as you wish.

It must be very convenient not having to have the GOOD HOUSEKEEPING OF HEAVEN SEAL OF APPROVAL . . . if more than a bit precarious.

470 posted on 12/22/2002 5:49:00 PM PST by Quix
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