Posted on 12/17/2002 2:21:52 PM PST by Polycarp
Over 100 extrasolar planets have already been discovered. As to small, rocky planets, 2 or 3 telescopes designed to detect earthsize extrasolar planets sould be in operation around the end of the decade. We'll see, and this is what we expect to see. If we see something else, then fine, we'll have plenty of new work for young astrophysicists and exobiologists.
These aren't religion questions. Different ballgame.
What was your point again about SETI? Whatever it was, you just shot it down.
How again do you think we know such a signal would come from an intelligent source, and how does that help us determine that DNA is designed?
Intelligence implies order. Period.
Your reasoning has come full circle. You said before that the order of s SETI signal would tell us there's intelligence behind it; now you say we know that because it's intelligent in origin, it must be ordered. You can't have it both ways.
I can understand your statement - because it is ordered, and from an intelligent source - you. I conclude that there is an intelligent life form (you) that sent me this message. That is my only logical conclusion since non-intelligence cannot communicate. (smile)
We can't possibly discuss these things without using common definitions.
A coward? Coming from an ex marine? That's rich.
You seem to be suffering from what is known as 'dick out' syndrome, in that you must, under all circumstances, be right and have others believe so as well; otherwise your sense of self seems to be quite threatened.
But when you cannot counter the claims against the logical flaws in your argumentation, you offer to argue any topic at all, just for another chance to prove to yourself that your rhetoric and skill at at discourse aren't as flimsy as rice paper.
Tilt on, Don Quixote.
They are assuming the narrow band waves are communications form intelligence. Non-life doesn't communicate. The narrow band waves are, in effect, an an ordered communication, otherwise they would not consider them to be from an intelligent source. My argument stands.
So far you haven't argued anything, put forth any intelligent discourse on any topic, other than insults. At least I am brave enough to argue points. You are not. That speaks for itself.
Are you insinuating U.S. Marines are cowards? It appears you are. Please type your answer in caps so everyone can see!
I am not insinuating anything: There are Marines and former Marines, and I know many of both. An ex-Marine' is someone who was drummed out or left the Corps in disgrace.
That someone had to tell you this is quite telling.
I don't care about it because I think all "Religions" are wrong. Too many different beliefs between good honest people who are absolutely, positively convinced that theirs is the one true faith.
Pna lbh haqrefgnaq zr abj?
Your argument stands in a circle. We know they're intelligent because they're ordered; we know they're ordered because they're intelligent.
The reality is that we would believe them to be intelligent because that's how we happen to do things, and we don't happen to know of any natural and spontaneous method of creating such signals. Order has nothing whatsoever to do with SETI.
There are many factors that must be in place very precisely in order for life to exist. You got the cart before the horse at the start ... that variables line up when life is present doesn't imply these variables were manipulated by an intelligence to be so ordered, scientifically that is. Here are some examples: Thickness of the earth's crust - any thinner or thicker, life would be impossible; This is incorrect, and it is now theorized that life arose within the earth, not on the surface ... and you are offering a theory, so I felt competing theories are in order ozone layer - any thicker or thinner, life would be impossible; This is an assumption based on a very limited sampling of life and taking as its axiom that life must arise on the surface of a planet distance of earth from sun; Not even a fixed requirement since energy from gravitational tides can accomplish the necessary available energy for life size and intensity of sun; another too limited assumption since a larger sun with a wider orbit planet will also work presencea and location of Jupiter which keeps solar system stable; a binary star system could accomplish a similar stability location of sun in between two spiral arms in milky way galaxy - if sun were on a spiral arm, life would be impossible; This is a novel assumption, possibly based on taking the previous faulty assumptions as axiomatic ... The odds of another planet having ALL of these factors is beyond the realm of possibility. I don't doubt it! You've cited such a long range of faulty axioms that it would be remarkable indeed to have life arise with everyone of these limitations as you've assumed them.
Of course, your assumptions are clearly agenda laden since so many of them are framed as self fulfilling and so many depend on the acceptable axiomatic state of the previously stated faulty assumptions. Sorry, I don't think you're doing too well with your line of argumentation. Oddly, I am firmly convinced that the universe (and we only have a limited experience with the entire universe, the realm of the Angels being one example realm well beyond our sensing as yet) is a creation of intelligent design.
The best argument I've ever read for this universe being other than a chance event is based on the likely span of time required for chance events to have brought life from the lifeless ... the believed age of the universe is way short of the necessary time span needed to insure life arise from chance, then intellignet life develop from simple life arisen from a lifeless background. Interestingly, just calculating a time span in which chance could work doesn't preclude the chance of it arising early on in the span required to assure it arise. I supposed that's the luck factor, but I don't give much credence to luck. [Actually, I'm strange in that I believe life is sourced in as real a dimension as time or space, and that given the basic lifeless conditions (and those aren't delicately arranged, at least not as delicately as you've asserted above), life expresses easily. Now, if you want to limit this to intelligant life, well, that is a completely different line of reasoning.]
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.