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The domestication of the russian silver fox. (40 year fast track evolution)
internet ^ | (10/29/02 3:59:34 pm) | dj

Posted on 12/16/2002 6:21:39 PM PST by dennisw

click here to read article


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To: Stavka2
You can't prove common sense...you must have been vaccinated!
121 posted on 12/18/2002 12:13:16 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
Well there's your problem, you haven't proved anything and you haven't disproved anything but you did make a half arsed attempt to look smart with some silly statements...you must have never taken debate in highschool or critical thought for that matter...and no stars are not holes in the sky and the universe does not rotate around the earth.
122 posted on 12/18/2002 12:15:42 PM PST by Stavka2
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To: blam
Hmmm...

Dogs, foxes Family Canidae

Cats, Family felidae

Order CARNIVORA
Carnivores

Family Canidae
Dogs, Foxes
(Genus: 5, Species: 6, Individual: 329)
Family Ursidae
Bears
(Genus: 1, Species: 1, Individual: 3)
Family Procyonidae
Raccoons
(Genus: 1, Species: 1, Individual: 6)
Family Mustelidae
Mustelids
(Genus: 4, Species: 7, Individual: 190)
Family Viverridae
Civets, Mongooses, etc.
(Genus: 4, Species: 4, Individual: 12)
Family Herpestidae
Mongooses
(Genus: 1, Species: 1, Individual: 7)
Family Felidae
Cats
(Genus: 2, Species: 12, Individual: 25)
Family Otariidae
Eared Seals, Sealions
(Genus: 1, Species: 1, Individual: 1)
Family Phocidae
Earless Seals
(Genus: 1, Species: 1, Individual: 1)

Back to Menu

123 posted on 12/18/2002 12:21:43 PM PST by bert
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To: Stavka2
Did you ever catch yourelf in a lie...your mind playing tricks on you---hire an investigator!
124 posted on 12/18/2002 12:22:08 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: f.Christian
irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

It appears you are over scaredizing.

125 posted on 12/18/2002 12:28:35 PM PST by bert
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To: bert
'scaredizing'...funny the evo god/ghosts are going to get me---evoboogeyman!
126 posted on 12/18/2002 12:33:48 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Stavka2
Alrighty...read your rambling profile

Am I supposed to organize your thoughts---philosophy for you...is it possible?

127 posted on 12/18/2002 12:47:15 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Condorman
...positive evidence that selection pressure causes measurable change in a population.

"Measurable change in a population" and "evolution" are two different things. What is the NEW gene or genotype in the example referred to in the article, and how does one know (in a scientific sense) that whatever characteristics present in the surivors was not already inherent in the precursor genes? In short, what is the identification of the "new" gene(s)?

How is this domestication experiment any different than a filter or a culture media in a lab that would not create anything?

Cordially,

128 posted on 12/18/2002 1:00:06 PM PST by Diamond
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To: dennisw
Has anyone thought of how a government may use this on it's citizens?
Welfare sets up the lazy folks. Welfare moms have how many babies. Through the process you end up with citizens that have been bred to be lazy.
If citizens are lazy they don't have the energy to root out the corrupt politicians.
129 posted on 12/18/2002 1:01:36 PM PST by Just another Joe
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To: Diamond
What is the NEW gene or genotype in the example referred to in the article, and how does one know (in a scientific sense) that whatever characteristics present in the surivors was not already inherent in the precursor genes? In short, what is the identification of the "new" gene(s)?

The article discusses this, but of course, you have to read the article.

Mutations occur all the time. The Rex cat, with its extremely fine hair, is a mutant. Admittedly you would need some DNA work to prove this, but you cannot get rex cats through normal breeding programs.

130 posted on 12/18/2002 1:05:38 PM PST by js1138
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To: Stavka2; Aric2000
either(dumb)/or(dumber)...no else(TRUTH)!
131 posted on 12/18/2002 1:19:56 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: Stavka2
Ummmmm..Ok

A blue whale is a blue whale is a blue whale....

Now breed it to become a humpback whale and I'm sold.

Or try this...

A chimp is a chimp is a chimp is a chimp is a chimp.....

Now breed it to become a human and I'm sold.

If I were you I'd start with the chimp, they are 99% compatible.

So close................................................... yet so far away.

132 posted on 12/18/2002 3:19:12 PM PST by Jimmyclyde
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To: Just another Joe
Has anyone thought of how a government may use this on it's citizens?

Evo drones/trolls around the clock on the fr!

133 posted on 12/18/2002 3:34:39 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: PatrickHenry
End-of-session placemarker.
134 posted on 12/18/2002 6:39:45 PM PST by PatrickHenry
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To: gore3000
bttt
135 posted on 12/18/2002 7:45:44 PM PST by f.Christian
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To: js1138
What is the NEW gene or genotype in the example referred to in the article, and how does one know (in a scientific sense) that whatever characteristics present in the surivors was not already inherent in the precursor genes? In short, what is the identification of the "new" gene(s)? -diamond-

The article discusses this, but of course, you have to read the article.

No it does not. There has been no genetic comparison of the foxes, even though that could be easily accomplished. It is a good example of the emptiness of evo 'science". They can easily verify whether the new foxes have changed genetically but they cannot be bothered doing it the rigth way. Instead they assume what they want to prove (besides if they really tested their assumptions they may be proven wrong!).

Anyways, these foxes are still the same species. Breeding does not create new genes, it just selects some varitions of genes from the existing gene pool. It is therefore not evolution. In fact the high adaptability and plasticity of species disproves evolution - species do not have to mutate to adapt, they already have the genes within them to adapt to different situations and environments.

136 posted on 12/18/2002 8:39:45 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Jimmyclyde
Ummmmm..Ok

A blue whale is a blue whale is a blue whale....

Now breed it to become a humpback whale and I'm sold.

OK, Not with Whales but how about breeding a carp into a goldfish

From a simple carp we now have many breeds of goldfish which are a different species from the original, Many breeds of goldfish are so different from one another they can't breed with each other.

Stop in your local petshop and look, The differences are stagering

Goldfish come in many colors (Reds, Whites, Blues and blacks)while the original carp was a browish monocolor

All Goldfish lost the barbles on their mouth the original carp had

Unlike the carp Most breeds of goldfish have 2 tails, Some lack the dorsal fin.

Most goldfish are Egg shaped while the carp (and the common goldfish) are cigar shaped.

Some types of goldfish have bubble sacks around there eyes. So a whole new organ that wasn't there before was developed.

Many types of goldfish have (for lack of a better word) growth on their heads, like a mane. Most notably the Lionheads & Orandas.

Some types of goldfish like the Pearlscale have unique types of scales

Now Goldfish were breed from the carp in ~1000 AD, So in just a thousand years we were able to breed animals with all kinds of different traits than it's original ancestors, So it isn't inconceivable that over 5 billion years which is 5 million times the amount of time all creatures we see today.

Do the math.

I not sure of the exact numbers but even if goldfish are 99.999% genetically similar to their original carp ancestor that would show it is possible to genetically change an animal 0.001% over 1000 years. So in 5 billion years it will be possible to genetically change an animal 5000% and currently I believe there isn't a lifeform that is more than 50% different DNA wise from anyother lifeform.

137 posted on 12/18/2002 8:48:58 PM PST by qam1
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To: Stavka2
Oh, wait, this'll blow your mind: Chimp DNA 99% compatible to humans.

Actually the 99% is not correct and is in fact not a scientific fact. Even then though do you realize what a task it would be to bridge that gap? With the human genome being 3 billion DNA bases long it means you would need some 30,000,000 successful and favorable mutations to transform a chimp into a man an utterly impossible occurrence in the time allotted.

138 posted on 12/18/2002 8:59:15 PM PST by gore3000
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To: f.Christian
Did you ever catch yourelf in a lie...your mind playing tricks on you---hire an investigator!

No I don't because I don't lie. That is a question that you should be aiming inwardly. Again, you flat out refuse to answer my questions...your education...or there lack off, is showing.

139 posted on 12/19/2002 1:39:39 AM PST by Stavka2
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To: Stavka2
s2...

You have yet to prove to me
1. why God could not make evolution
2. why it is blasphemy...other then it's your opinion. And you'll have to do better then a few random Bible verses.

fC...

God can not lie...the Bible says---logic too...

"there is no shadow or turning" possible!

Science/God is stable...

evolution is a hallucination----mirage!
140 posted on 12/19/2002 1:50:20 AM PST by f.Christian
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