Americans fire back over column (Americans slam Canada)

Toronto star ^ | 12-16-02 | Richard Gwyn

[Jimmyclyde]

Americans fire back over column

RICHARD GWYN

You all suck even more than France. That is one American's opinion of Canada.

Another, from Salem, Mass., holds the view that, "Americans are superior to Canadians because we don't play or watch curling."

And from Kansas City comes the comment, "Canada is the bookish, nerdy sister of the prom queen that is America." Many, from all over, remark on how Canada — "hiding behind Big Mama's skirts" — depends on the U.S. for its defence.

But then a Texan chimes in with, "I'm a right-wing American who loves being part of the biggest, baddest, nation on the block.

Yet that voice from the distant, frigid north is oddly reassuring, sort of like having a more even-keeled young brother."

And a "Jon" recalled that the Roman emperors had a servant whisper in their ear, "Remember, Caesar, you are mortal" — a practice that could usefully be recreated in Ottawa — and then opined: "The U.S. needs to be challenged for its own good the same way ... (a role) Canadians are particularly well-suited to."

What Canadians think does matter to Americans. In certain circumstances at certain times.

My evidence for saying this is that I've culled those quotes from the some 1,400 e-mails sent to me as a result of my column of last Sunday titled, "It's not our fault that we're morally superior to Americans."

What promoted the column was some hand-wringing by Deputy Prime Minister John Manley that any Canadian sentiments of superiority were actually a sign of a sense of inferiority, and should be silenced so as not to annoy Americans.

My rebuttal was that Canadian sentiments of superiority were actually a sign of a sense of superiority, and why on Earth not say so out loud, since Americans are certain they are superior to everyone in the world and can hardly be shocked to be challenged.

I expected some shots back, from both sides of the border. I got the verbal equivalent of a salvo of cruise missiles. As a journalist, I've never experienced its equal. The Drudge Report on the Web picked up the column, and, in a tribute to its power, triggered well over 1,000 of those e-mails. American radio and TV stations called for interviews.

Best of all, I got by accident, a fascinating insight into American opinions about Canada but also about their own country.

First, a sample of the antis:

"We Americans don't give a rat's ass what you think about us."

"You do nothing and carp about others. You're like a nation populated entirely by university professors and newspaper columnists."

"You people can be as superior as you like while you surrender your firearms, pay for your socialist health care, and freeze your collective asses off."

"Canadians are sort of a nation of Homer Simpsons."

Then the pros:

"One of the reasons Canadians are such good neighbours is that they are not afraid to disagree with us. Our differences are not violent, fearful or antagonistic, and that means they must be constructive."

"I remember the first time being around Canadian people and as a black man that was the first time in my 44 years I was treated like a real person. I wish I were a Canadian."

"Overall you guys are great. If in fact you are superior in some areas, I see that as a challenge. You know how we hate to come in second."

The level of knowledge about Canada was far higher than is generally assumed. To my comment that Canadians have more of a sense of being a collectivity, many respondents replied: "What about Quebec?" On the differences in health-care systems, one of many defending the U.S. practice observed shrewdly, "Canadians do have a two-tier system. It's just that your first-tier is in places like Minneapolis and Syracuse and Boston where you can get an MRI on three day's notice."

The level of humour was high as well. "I'm impressed that Canada's firearms registration program has ballooned from $2 million to one billion. I thought only the U.S. Congress was that inept."

Most interesting, perhaps, is that dealing with a Canadian's comments about the U.S. triggered perceptive comments by Americans about themselves:

"Please be patient with us as we search for a way to respond to what we feel is a critically dangerous time in history. We can have big mouths, but we also have big hearts."

"Americans do have a bit of a superiority complex. But not in the way you understand. We want to be the best at everything we do. Our attitudes demand victory, victory, victory."

"It seems we NEED an enemy to feel good about ourselves. The fall of the Soviet Union was the worst thing that could have happened to us. No one to beat at the Olympics. No one to talk tough to."

The only way to end is to balance evenly, in a properly Canadian way, the praise and the blame:

"Just as Canadians are better at viewing themselves as a collective, they are also better at viewing themselves not just as members of a nation but as citizens of the world."

And to confirm that it's curling that really distinguishes the two nations of North America, "Go back to sliding things across the ice and calling it a sport."

[Mr. Lucky]

I don't see why Canadians and Americans should waste time picking on each other while there are so many French in the world.

[SAMWolf]

LOL! I like the way you think!

[Grig]

Toronto Star = Canadian version of the New York Times

Their readership is declining too, while the very conservative, pro-USA National Post is getting bigger and bigger.

[Caipirabob]

Nothing the enemy enjoys more than watching two neighbors fight over their own vanity. America: Chill out. Canda: Kill the G*D* Socialists already and send us more beer.

[Black Powder]

IMHO, I like Canada's old flag better,

It doesn't exist any more, much like our colonial ties to Great Britain, and hopefully one day, the symbolic monarchy in the Canadian government. The United States created their own flag after independence, so I'm surprised by your attachment to the red ensign.

The Red Ensign has a history to it. IMHO the Maple Leaf flag does not represent Canada's history.

The maple leaf itself has been part of Canadian society for over two centuries. You can find it plastered on documents long before the red ensign became Canada's flag. It is a uniquely Canadian symbol, unlike the union jack. The red ensign was created in 1707. It was a merchant navy flag and it is not unique to the country of Canada. It was simply slapped onto the country by the British.

The Red Ensign was still Canada's flag in 1931 when you gained your independance from Britain and Canadians fought WWI, WWII and in Korea under the Red Ensign.

It just took Canadians longer to change their flag after independence. As far back as WWI, every battalion had the maple leaf in its insignia. That was the symbol for Canada. And red and white were the official colors of Canada since 1921. The only reason the red ensign wasn't replaced earlier was to not offend the British. Just recall how the British shreiked when Australia suggested removing the monarchy a few years ago.

[Black Powder]

I just know how I'd feel if they tried to change the U.S. flag.

The red ensign was never Canada's flag. It belonged to the British. You're comparing apples to oranges. Would you be similarly offended if Canada decided to drop the monarchy?

[Hot Tabasco]

Our country needs to refocus on Al-Qaeida, and the terrorists’ cells world wide. In that effort, we will have world wide support, except of course Saudi Arabia, the source of all that hate, which our government tells us that it is our friend! Whoever is advising the White House is doing a lousy job

Our country is focused but we will never gain world wide support in anything as long as the socialists control the media. Canada being the prime example! No matter what the U.S. does anywhere in this world, we will always be under attack by the media who have absolutely nothing to find worthwhile in the U.S.

My step-mother was Canadian and my two step-sisters are Canadian, one of which is now a naturalized citizen and they thank God they are living here in the U.S.. This fact has nothing to do with anything other than until I start reading pro-U.S. articles coming out of Canada I will look down on that socialist country and ALL of its people who do not have the cohones to stop sucking on the government teat with the contempt it deserves.

Shut down all the U.S. Automotive influence and Canada would drop into third world status really quick......... That would certainly be a wake up call wouldn't it?

[Black Powder]

I suspect that many "Canadians" in the world are operatives of some other government. Canada is well thought of in many more places than America.

The Israelis have abused the Canadian passport and identity often enough.

[SAMWolf]

No. If Canada decided to drop the Monarchy, it'd be fine with me. I'm not much into Kings/Queens.

I just have a soft spot for flags. I feel the same about the "new" German flag and the "new" Polish Flag.

[Black Powder]

Plenty of Canadians(me included) don't mind the history expressed by the Red Ensign, Canada's traditional flag.

The beer-label imposed by the Leftist Liberal cabal is an insult to all but their 'multi-cultural' clientele.

I didn't realize the red ensign was whitey flag. I suppose the liberals were also catering to multi-culturalism when they were granted permission to change the constitution in friggin' 1982. Some independence. I still see the queen on Canadian money. I would be a nasty multi-culturalist if I wanted that changed, wouldn't I?

No, you're wrong. There aren't plenty of Canadians who dream about the days of the red ensign. Only the ones who have attached some meaningless symbolism to it and their displeasure with the liberals. The Canadian soldiers who died this past century did so under a British flag for a country that couldn't amend its own constitution. Very unfortunate.

[Black Powder]

I just have a soft spot for flags. I feel the same about the "new" German flag and the "new" Polish Flag.

What about the new Russian flag? What about the old American flag, the one before independence?

[Black Powder]

Shut down all the U.S. Automotive influence and Canada would drop into third world status really quick......... That would certainly be a wake up call wouldn't it?

Yes, for all of the Americans who would be walking to work, thinking that they live in a 3rd world country.

[SAMWolf]

I don't care for the new Russian flag, I can't say I particularly cared for the Communist Party flag either.

If you're talking about the Grand Union Flag, I prefer the Betsy Ross flag and it's evolution into our current flag.

[Hot Tabasco]

Yes, for all of the Americans who would be walking to work, thinking that they live in a 3rd world country

With the exception of passing out work to a northern neighbor in order to help their economy and perhaps, just perhaps, garner some loyalty to the United States, there is no reason whatsoever to provide manufacturing work to Canada. Any and all manufacturing done in Canada on behalf of the auto industry can be done here. I hardly think that there would be any Americans walking to work.

So tell me, take the U.S. Auto influence out of Canada and what is left to sustain their economy at the level they currently enjoy?

[Black Powder]

If you're talking about the Grand Union Flag, I prefer the Betsy Ross flag and it's evolution into our current flag.

Yes, I thought you would prefer the current design over this flag:

My guess is that the union jack seems out of place for an independent country like the USA. And 99.9% of Canadians prefer the maple leaf flag for similar reasons.

In the supplied link, you'll find that replacing the red ensign was on the minds of Canadians long before it actually happened. That's because Canadians never thought of the red ensign as their own flag. I guess history has become foggy in the minds of some Canadians here since the almost 40 years that the red ensign was replaced. But to them, everything was better in the good ol' days... even flags.

[Black Powder]

With the exception of passing out work to a northern neighbor in order to help their economy and perhaps, just perhaps, garner some loyalty to the United States, there is no reason whatsoever to provide manufacturing work to Canada.

Since when did the US become a communist country that can tell its manufacturers where to set up shop? The US government doesn't own these auto plants. The reason why cars are built in Canada is because it is far cheaper to do so in Canada than in the US.

Any and all manufacturing done in Canada on behalf of the auto industry can be done here.

Yeah, and I bet all of those US manufacturing jobs went to China, Korea, Taiwan, Mexico, etc for the same reasons... US government benevolence. Yeah, sure. I bet you could still do those in the US too.

So tell me, take the U.S. Auto influence out of Canada and what is left to sustain their economy at the level they currently enjoy?

The same stuff that maintaned it before US auto manufacturers decided to set up shop in Canada. Like, what, you think people were starving to death in Canada before the auto plants appeared? Sheesh, talk about being egocentric. The standard of living in Canada was higher before the US became too involved, if you really want to look back that far.

[Mamzelle]

America feeds the world, shows up at earthquakes, defends the defenseless, frees the tyrannized, and endures the sneers of mincing, wincing Eurosnots with a shrug...until lately. That's why we're superior.

Now I start to look forward to the day that the silly French women are forced to don burquas to please the Beurs...no more haute couture pour vous.

Who cares what these feeble Euros and Canadians think? It's not like they're capable of helping us, anyway. They're just a band of spiteful children.

[SAMWolf]

Thanks for the link, very informative.

I still like the Red Ensign though, but since Canada is not my country, I have no real say in what flag you decided to adopt.

Just out of curiosity, is the flag a "issue" in Canada. I know they'll be die-hards who prefer the old flag but I haven't really heard of it being an issue there.

[Mamzelle]

The Eurotrash sneers not because they fear us but because they take our support utterly for granted. I don't care enough about their fates to want to scare them.

[Rocky]

we'll apologize for inflicting President Bill Clinton on the world - twice

Although you meant it in humor, you hit a sensitive nerve. Apologies don't even come close to compensating for what this country inflicted on the world. I am ashamed of my country for reelecting that criminal after it was so clear what kind of person he was.