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''Wealth is really created by making things. I still adhere to that.''

Yes, it is being created in other countries. It's called globalization.

Richard W.

1 posted on 12/14/2002 10:22:42 AM PST by arete
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To: bvw; Tauzero; kezekiel; ChadGore; Harley - Mississippi; Dukie; Matchett-PI; Ken H; MrNatural; ...
FYI

Comments and opinions welcome.

Richard W.

2 posted on 12/14/2002 10:23:55 AM PST by arete
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To: arete
"The movement of jobs to other countries angers Seitz the most."

I'm surprised that anyone has noticed since it's only been going on for about the past 45 years.
3 posted on 12/14/2002 10:24:59 AM PST by Chi-townChief
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To: arete
"Yes, it is being created in other countries. It's called globalization."

It's really called Nazification: you can't compete with slave labor in Communist China.

http://www.chinasupport.net/
http://www.boycottmadeinchina.org/
http://www.laogai.org/chinese/index-en.html
5 posted on 12/14/2002 10:34:58 AM PST by HighRoadToChina
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To: arete
No need to fear about the loss of well paying manufacturing jobs... There are plenty of Wal-Mart jobs still to be had. And the Sheeple can still Buy! Buy! Buy! with their credit cards.
6 posted on 12/14/2002 10:37:30 AM PST by ambrose
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To: arete
Perot was a kook remember???? Tell that to the people that lost jobs that went bye bye to Mexico or China. All the presidents, past and present will tell you globalization is great. What it means is that they intend to bring the American working class down to the third world level. The American elite will remain the same therefore they care less about the workers.
7 posted on 12/14/2002 10:39:34 AM PST by cynicom
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To: arete
Last month, film giant Eastman Kodak -- the largest employer in Rochester and the central focus of the community since the company was founded by George Eastman in 1888 -- announced it was shutting down an area plant and laying off the 500 employees who make single-use, sometimes called ''throw-away,'' cameras.

Yes, definitely a national emergency when our single-use cameras are being made overseas. How will we survive when they cut off our supply? {/sarcasm}

I don't get it. I see these threads of FR all the time. Everyone whining about the decline of manufacturing, free trade and globalization. And completely ignoring the objective statistical evidence that:

1. National inflation-adjusted income continues to climb.

2. Unemployment has gone down dramatically since introduction of NAFTA and GATT, despite the recent downturn.

3. A global economy improves standard of living both here and in other countries, making war less likely, and making it more likely they will stay home instead of coming here as a penniless immigrant.

Hey, folks, we're Americans. We don't need to whine. We have the most powerful, most productive economy ever seen on the planet, and it shows no signs of serious decline.

Yes, it's tragic when people lose their jobs. But you want to look at the alternative? Look at Europe. They're trying to maintain their manufacturing base and make jobs safe. They have all kinds of laws about it. Guess what? Their economies are in the tank, they have produced less than 1/10 the number of new jobs per capita that we have in the last ten years, and they are on the way to being third-rate economic powers. Is that what you guys want?

Our only problem is that our government imposes far too much regulation and restrictions on business, while other countries do not. But that's our problem, and we've got no business blaming anyone else for it.

8 posted on 12/14/2002 10:39:50 AM PST by Joe Bonforte
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To: arete
''Wealth is really created by making things. I still adhere to that.''

And yet we have the highest per-capita income and the highest standard of living in the world. Ricardo still rules....

9 posted on 12/14/2002 10:39:53 AM PST by general_re
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To: arete
Last month, film giant Eastman Kodak -- the largest employer in Rochester and the central focus of the community since the company was founded by George Eastman in 1888 -- announced it was shutting down an area plant and laying off the 500 employees who make single-use, sometimes called ''throw-away,'' cameras. The work will now be done in China or Mexico, two countries where the company already has operations.

So let Mexico and China have the throw-away camera market. I stopped using them years ago with the advent of digital cameras. For about 10 thow-away cameras that take crappy pictures one could probably buy a cheap digital camera that takes better pictures which cost much less to store than the cost of film processing for the throw-aways. So, what's the big fuss about?

If the Kodak enginmeer had more balls and stood up for the guy that got fired recently for publically broadcasting his wish not to receive gratuitious homosexual propaganda from Kodak, I might have some empathy.

10 posted on 12/14/2002 10:40:06 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: arete

Fundamentally, we believe that the U.S. government needs to devote more resources and put in place new programs to build wider expertise about China and to protect our industrial base from eroding as a result of our economic relations with China.

-- C. Richard D’Amato, chairman
U.S.-China Security Review Commission
(How to improve U.S.-China relations)


11 posted on 12/14/2002 10:40:22 AM PST by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green; ambrose
Ping!

I have been saying this for years. I love it when the talking heads on tv talk about the Christmas season as a "make or break" time for the retailers in this country whose goods come from foreign factories.

How utterly ironic that our economy's survival is predicated on the sale of billions of dollars of foreign goods.

14 posted on 12/14/2002 10:41:31 AM PST by raybbr
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To: All
''Wealth is really created by making things. I still adhere to that.''

Let go of it already. Simply ''making things'' has never been enough. ''Wealth is really created by'' providing value.

When ''making things'' is enough, the people live in 1-room apartments, they rejoice when the grocer has fresh bread and rutabagas, and they wait years for the chance to buy a Trabant.

(No, thanks.)

16 posted on 12/14/2002 10:43:48 AM PST by newgeezer
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To: arete
why don't we invest in robotics? robo made textiles, robo made furniture, ....
22 posted on 12/14/2002 10:52:50 AM PST by koax
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To: arete
Who is responsible for the loss of manufacturing jobs in the USA? One word answer: UNIONS! Who are making the manufacture of goods in the USA uncompetative. The unions wants more than 3X the wages, and benifits that other countries workers are willing to accept, yet the US workers productivity is only marginally better. This is just following the simple laws of Free Enterprise, no more, no less. Unions in the USA are very slow(or probably never) to accept that Americans, Malaysians, South Americans, Koreans,.... are all in the same BOAT, called EARTH. Work will go to the lowest cost.
29 posted on 12/14/2002 10:58:15 AM PST by desertcry
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To: arete
The more people they can put out of work in America and make their existance dependant on the largesse of the state, the faster America will approach a state where the people will have to give up soverenity and join the world government just to survive.
31 posted on 12/14/2002 10:59:55 AM PST by philetus
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To: arete
Sad. Kodak, although still an important force in Rochester, is not the employer it was.

Kodak got fat, dumb and happy and by the time they tried to do anything about it in the late 80's early 90's, they had lost market share to Fuji, AGFA, etc and missed some good opportunities. It's been an uphill climb ever since.

As far as companies going to Mexico, etc, Champion Products used to have plant in Perry, NY. They downsized that plant in part to work going down to Mexico. A few years later, they moved some work BACK UP to the Perry plant due to problems with quality, etc with products made in Mexico. One of my workers, who used to work at the Perry plant, said several folks who were contacted by Champion to come back to Perry to work told them "no", citing the lack of loyalty that companies have to employees, etc. I think it's a valid point, while acknowledging that companies have a duty to shareholders and other groups as well.

66 posted on 12/14/2002 11:46:29 AM PST by Fury
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To: arete
China is becoming the center of world manufacturing, with even the Japanese moving their high end production there. This does not bode well for world peace and security.
69 posted on 12/14/2002 11:49:31 AM PST by Fulbright
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To: arete
There are many factors hurting manufacturing other than cheap labor. Note there is reportedly high unemployment in parts of China now. So long as skilled labor is trained here in the US, we keep a certain level of manufacturing here. But, here are problems we can solve:

1. Class warfare. Large businesses are no longer loyal to the US because they are treated like the enemy.

2. Enviro-wackos. It's getting downright insane.

3. High taxes and fees on businesses, such as a blasted TOOL TAX in my local area.

4. Education: The teachers' union is destroying US education. What is the point in throwing money down that REEKING RAT HOLE when we ought to dump it and start the equivalent of school choice anyway?

71 posted on 12/14/2002 11:52:56 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March
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To: arete
When a high school dropout can make $40/hour pushing a broom as a union member in a Ford plant and makes more than the college-degreed engineer who helps to design the car, there's a problem. Maybe we'll get some reality in the US labor markets after union members have been out of work a few more years. Can you say "Come-up-ance?"
76 posted on 12/14/2002 12:05:30 PM PST by Rockitz
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To: arete
thanks to the U.N wto, nafta
83 posted on 12/14/2002 12:22:59 PM PST by FreeSpeechZone
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To: arete
Yes, it is being created in other countries. It's called globalization.

Yes, other countries do making it attractive for U.S. companies to move their production overseas.

A more correct assessment, though, is that it is more a matter of businesses being chased overseas by business hating groups and government agencies, overregulation and costs over liability and workers comp insurance here in the U.S.

If conditions were right in this country, business would stay. That businesses move overseas only for cheap labor is a convenient myth. In some labor intensive industries, labor costs are an important factor. But even in labor intesive industries, the labor savings is only one componant of the many other benefits.

87 posted on 12/14/2002 12:35:09 PM PST by BJungNan
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