Religions change over time but is Islam an inherently violent religion?

Daily Journal ^ | December 10, 2002 | Bob Thomas

[pgkdan]

Kindly prove to me and others here that my statement is a falsehood. What is the basis of your argument against my statement?

You made the statement...you prove it to be true. Exactly how many people have died from disease and disasters in the history of all the world? And please provide documentation.

And BTW...there's no "S" at the end of Fugit. Time flie"s" but Tempus Fugit.

[pgkdan]

guess you missed the part in history where the Catholic Church was aiding and abetting Hitler in his genocide of the Jewish people, huh?

Now you show your true colors. Liar. Bigot. Ignoramous.

[Capt. Tom]

From the original article- The murderers speak in the name of Islam, and the peaceful majority cannot find the courage to challenge them.

Why should they challenge them. And on what grounds? The murderers are following the religion to the letter.

To challenge them would be like moderate Christians attacking a group of Christians who follow the Ten Commandments on the grounds they are radicals and not with the modern world. - Tom

[Destro]

BAR, no need to bother with vtel57. Nazisim was a political/racial movement and was not based on religion. Jews who were Christian converts and in some cases priests were killed along with out right Christians by the Nazis. People who claim the Nazis were fighting for a religion are poor historians.

[stuartcr]

I agree in that the texts can't be genuinely manipulated, but we're talking about crazies here that read what they want into anything, not sane people. I'm sure many battles have been fought over the centuries, with both sides believing God was on their side.

[agrace]

I certainly agree with you there.

[rmlew]

The Catholkic Church did no such thing.
The Church saved well over 500,000 Jews.
More Jews were hidden by the Church in Rome than were taken in by the US from 1935-1945.

[Dasaji]

If there is such a thing as original sin, I think God's punishment for it is the concept of religion
________________________________________________

In either the Bhagavad Gita or Upanishads (Hindu sacred texts) I believe there is a passage that goes:

"God gave Man the Truth. Then Satan came along, organized it and called 'religion.'"

[stuartcr]

So the truth is unorganised? That must be why it's so hard to find. I'll have to read up on it, thanks.

[stuartcr]

Why do you feel that a religious affiliation is worth fighting for? What happens if you don't fight for it, won't your faith be the same?

[eleni121]

Be happy to.

Here is how I see it ----

"Ideology" definition: a body of ideas that reflects the beliefs and interests of a nation, political system, etc. and underlies political action.

This definition fits islam to a T.

1) Islam, has militaristic connotations - a body of ideas that reflects the beliefs and interests of a nation, political system, etc. and underlies political action.

2) Muslims also believe in the inherent goodness of people as over against the Christian doctrine of original sin - all you need to be "saved" is to be Muslim - unlike the notion of original sin which requires a Christian to struggle for grace.

3) Muslims need guidance and that guidance is the Islamic law, an all encompassing system that controls every aspect of everyday life.

"What is needed is a Muslim government to provide the legal and social framework necessary to facilitate submission to the law. There is no separation between the sacred and the secular, between church and state. This community is one, universal, and cohesive..."

From Dr Samuel Schlorff, "Can you explain for me the Mindset of the Islamic Terrorist?" Arab World Ministries, 2001

Since its origins - islam/ or Mohamed's revenge on Jews and Christians and anyone who does not submit - has used force - violent military action - subjugation, enslavement, mass atrocities, and genocide even to this day - to achieve its goals.

[vtel57]

So, as I see it here... you (as a Christian, I'm assuming... and if I'm incorrect in that assupmtion, I apologize) are saying that your views and beliefs are right and the Muslims' views and beliefs are wrong. Is that accurate? If so, your line of thinking is EXACTLY the type of thinking that leads to the death and chaos that I've stated is brought about by organized religions in this world. That type of stance perpetuates the "us" vs "them" problem that has plagued mankind since the beginning of time. This just proves my point that religions widen the rift between us rather than bring us together.

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[vtel57]

I've read many differing versions of the Catholic Church's stance on Hitler and the Nazis during and after WWII... I have not completely determined what the truths to that matter really are. It's a difficult subject to research due to revisionism, biased reporting, and secrecy within the Church itself. If you know of a definitive version, I'd be interested to know about it.

Thanks,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[vtel57]

>People who claim the Nazis were fighting for a religion are poor historians.

I don't believe I ever made any claim that the Nazis were fighting a religious war... nor have I claimed to be an historian.

What is it about the main point of my posting that is so difficult for you folks to focus on? It's not about religion. It's not about war. It's about mankind facing the fact that while we are all different in many ways, we are also much the same. My argument is that organized religions have seperated us further and magnified our differences to the point where we KILL one another because of HATE that is generated by our perceptions of those differences. Is that so hard to understand and see?

I know that I'm dealing with moderate to highly intelligent and interested people here in this forum. I doubt that any of you are isolationists, nationalists, bigots, or racists. Is the anti-religious aspect of my postings what is putting some of you on the defensive? If so, maybe you need to ask yourselves why that is and what is it saying about you and your feelings about ALL your fellow beings on this planet. Do you believe that some are inferior to you due to their beliefs? I would think better of you than that. I wish to believe that this is NOT the case with any of you.

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[vtel57]

Actually, that "Tempus Fugits" was a favorite saying of my mother's. She knew that it was a bastardization of the proper Latin. I've maintained it as she used it in honor of her memory. Thank you for mentioning it though.

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net

[vtel57]

As I stated to someone else here there is quite a bit of evidence and reporting to suspect that the Catholic Church was abetting, even if by turning a blind eye, Hitler's final solution. However, there is also an abundance of defensive evidence and reporting to show that the Catholic Church was innocent of complicity in Hitler's schemes.

So, admitting that... I suppose I should also apologize for making that statement all together because there is no definitive evidence pointing to either option. Therefore, I do apologize for the statement. Research the issue yourself, if you're interested.

>Now you show your true colors. Liar. Bigot. Ignoramous.

As to that statement, I'm sorry that I've angered you to the point where civil discourse has failed us and you've decided to personally insult me. Reading of my posts in this thread should show anyone here that I'm trying to point out that man needs to learn to get along with his fellow man. Nothing I've written here espouses bigotry... and as far as being deceitful, opinions are what the holder of the opinion believes in his heart. It cannot be pidgeon-holed as right/wrong, lie/truth, etc. It can only be agreed to or disagreed to based on the reader's own opinions.

Regards,

V.T. Eric Layton
***Tempus Fugits***
vtel57@softhome.net