Posted on 12/11/2002 6:28:08 AM PST by A2J
School choice would resolve this dispute. I suspect that the schools that refrain from teaching evolution as a done deal, will end up having the most successful students -- and the least pathological.
Yup, just like you said. Your argument there says perfectly that multiple universes are just as unlikely to be fact as religion. After all, "it claims something to have happened which we know absolutely nothing about."
Yep. He practiced what he believed, and what he believed was ultimately inspired by Darwin. Lysenkoism was his fig leaf, and by extension now it is yours.
I don't want to bring this up, but let us not forget the countless atrocities "inspired" by religion, and yes, even Christianity. Do I think Christianity is evil? No, because I am not going to make the conclusion that because some Christians are evil all are. You and gore are making the conclusion that since some evolutionists are racist or socialist or whatever, that all are.
Loaded question. To show you why: Do you think there is no connection between Christianity and fascism (Hitler), slavery, Holocaust, feudalism, inquisitions, molestation, etc. whatsoever?
No. But the issue is creationism, not Christianity.
How long did it take that Red Herring to evolve? Why keep bringing up Christianity? One need not be a Christian to subscribe to creationist theory, but to be a Communist one must subscribe to evolutionist theory.
No. What you've done is make a mountain out of a mole hill question. What you've NOT done is answer the question forthrightly. An honest answer would not require anyone to abandon the validity of evolution theory, so why be afraid to face any connection between the two? Is this kind of obfuscation characteristic of those who represent your views?
How does one argue against your idea of Biblical fundamentalist creationism without going after the source? You attack evolution on scientific grounds but claim a beginning based on completely un-scientific grounds. Once attacked, you become defensive and say that evolutionists just want to bash religion.
Then you make loaded comparision questions between evolution and communism. I'm sure there is a link somewhere, just like the community leaders of some of the Christian world are linked with molestation. Not all evolutionists are communists or racists (in fact, social darwinism was an extremely capitalist idea) and not all Christians are molesters. You're making an unfair statement.
Well, I suppose then that "restrained" hedonism is just a code name for Bondage & Discipline.....
;-)
What you've done is make a mountain out of a mole hill question. What you've NOT done is answer the question forthrightly. An honest answer would not require anyone to abandon the validity of evolution theory, so why be afraid to face any connection between the two? Is this kind of obfuscation characteristic of those who represent your views?
I will answer the question. Yes. There is a connection. But don't try to play innocent. You are trying to establish a cause and effect relationship that is false. You are implying that to be a evolutionist, you have to be a communist. It is quite the opposite, and therefore unimportant to the argument.
Have you not made a loaded assumption in stating that I somehow represent Biblical fundamentalist creationism? Is that the only kind of creationism allowed? I've not reduced evolutionism to a singlular level like that.
"Not all evolutionists are communists . . ."
Very true. But all communists are evolutionists and atheists at heart.
". . .you become defensive and say that evolutionists just want to bash religion."
Given the general tone of discourse from evolutionists to creationists, I would say they take delight in bashing religion. Yes. Should they be denied credibility because they may be defensive about this? Does this somehow add weight to evolutionist "science?"
The candor is appreciated, but you err in assuming the direction of any cause and effect relationship I see between the two. I mean, just because all communists happen to be evolutionists does not mean the treaching of evolution is responsible for bringing about communism. A conclusion like that would be like, . . . well . . . drawing a line between two similar fossils and assuming one evolved from the other.
No, no: At the instant of the Big Bang (not "before"), all the directions pointed towards the future. Think again of the South Pole: at that point (not south of it), all the directions point north.
[Geek alert: note the caveat in my repost. Some current models have the universe--meaning "everything we can in principle travel to"--arising out of a higher-dimensional multiverse, in which there exist one (or more!) timelike dimensions and up to 26 extra space dimensions. I reiterate that these directions are not parallel to or equivalent to the time and space dimensions of our universe, and events in that superspace (assuming it exists) don't come "before" or "after" events in our universe in the context of our time. To say that they do would be like standing to the south of a desktop globe, tracing a meridian to the south pole of the globe, and saying, "see, I am to the south of this point!"]
I'm not clear about what you're asking in the rest of your post.
Fair point. But do you concede that the entire movement for creationist teachings in public schools would instantly halt if it were put forth that Muslim, Hindu, Cherokee, and Buddhist creation mythology would be given an equal share of time in classrooms as Christianity? Maybe you yourself wouldn't mind, but everybody else would go into a hysterical panic.
I did jump to a conlcusion, but the only voices you here begging for creationist classrooms are Christian fundamentalists. Therefore, 99% of the time the assumption is correct. Agreed?
Would you say that all Nazi fascists were Christians? (just so I can make a similar comparison...)
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