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To: kidd; Diago; narses; Loyalist; BlackElk; american colleen; saradippity; Polycarp; Dajjal; ...
1. There is no connection between the cause and the effects.

That wasn't the purpose of the article. Pat Buchanan, and many other writers, have already drawn the cause-and-effect connection many times in the past. The "Index" referred to here is a statistical summary, and Catholics need to come to grips with what it is telling us.

2. Only United States statistics are mentioned.

It's a huge misuderstanding to believe that the Church is doing just great in other parts of the world. It's not. Europe has been devastated. The statistics there are much, much worse than in the United States. Anyone can make up numbers for Africa, but the reality is that the continent is facing devastation, while the Western world runs away and abandons the obligations it took on. Africa even took the lead in the scandals that are now rocking the Church.

Vatican II wasn't tailored to fit Americans.

Quite to the contrary, Vatican II was a triumph of the American version of Catholicism. John Courtney Murray and his theories of separation of church and state triumphed over the teachings of Popes Blessed Pius IX, Leo XIII, Saint Pius X, Pius XI, and Pius XII.

3. There is no analysis of what would have happened had Vatican II not been enacted.

It's ludicrous to criticize a daily newspaper column for not contemplating alternate scenarios. Read the statistics and decide for yourself if things could possibly have been worse. Most are down by 90% to 99%. There just isn't too much room there to squeeze in a worse scenario. As far as the US is concerned, the only worse scenario would be what has happened to the Catholic Church in Europe.

4. And most importantly there is no discussion of the biblical basis for Vatican II - only a dry statistical discussion.

Do you also criticize the "Little Black Book of Communism" for only discussing statistics and not evaluating the philosophical roots of Marxism? This "Index of Catholic Indicators" serves a useful purpose, just like a financial report serves a useful purpose for a company. When a company reports that sales have dropped 90%, do you wonder whether there might have been an even worse plan that might have turned out even worse? When reading about the 100 million deaths documented in the "Little Black Book of Communism," do you wonder if even more people could have been murdered had communism not appeared on the scene?

"By their fruits you shall know them." This is a crop report on the fruits of Vatican II.

39 posted on 12/11/2002 7:48:54 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
See #82. I am more optimistic about the future of the church today than I have been in years.
90 posted on 12/11/2002 9:50:20 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: Maximilian
Pat's view is through the rearview mirror...
107 posted on 12/11/2002 11:06:57 AM PST by WriteOn
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To: Maximilian
Regards, Maximilian. I see that some of the posters are referring to that garden spot, Africa. See, no problems, just look somewhere else far, far, far away. Preferably a place where noone posting has actually lived.

Priests, Bishops Rape Nuns

"The women's orders are very poor in Africa," Yvonne Maes, a nun who worked in Africa for 21 years, told the Vancouver Sun. "If some priests want to target them for sex, they don't have a hope in hell. The bishops wouldn't listen to any of their complaints." Maes recounted that some Catholic priests had common-law wives and that some bishops had pressured nuns to have sex. Maes further noted that homosexual Catholic priests had sexually molested Innu men. Several lawsuits against the homosexual priests have been filed.

Sister Marie McDonald, who compiled a report on the abuse, noted that Church leaders rebuffed many nuns who sought help. It constituted a "conspiracy of silence," said Sr. McDonald in the report, The problem of Sexual Abuse of African Religious in Africa and Rome. "...[M]any of them [bishops] felt it was disloyal of the sisters to send reports. However, the sisters claim they have done so time and time again. Sometimes they were not well received. In some instances they are blamed for what happened. Even when they are listened to sympathetically nothing much seems to be done."

Cardinal Martinez Somalo, director of the Vatican congregation for Religious Life, set up a committee to look into the problem, reported the London Independent. This happened after the story the story first broke, although the Church has known of the sexual abuse for more than a decade. "But it [the committee] seems to have done little beyond 'awareness raising' among bishops." stated the Independent.

There reportedly are more than 2,000 documented accounts of clergy abuse in Africa alone. But the problem exists in at least 23 countries. It is rampant in Brazil, Columbia, India, Ireland, Italy, New Guinea, the Philippines and the United States said the Vancouver Sun.

131 posted on 12/11/2002 12:18:23 PM PST by Grigeo
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