Bills could end child support payments from men who aren't biological dads

MLIVE.com ^ | The Associated Press

[Rytwyng]

But in real life, you might have to hire a lawyer if you were such an object of fraud, and put up with a substantial nuisance before the issue was resolved.

The whole reason why this "Paternity Fraud" issue has become a national movement, is that men in this situation DID get lawyers, DID put up with substantial legal nuisance, DID have the facts on their side, AND YET the courts, unconscionably, ruled against them.

Be interested in a case of such a thing happening.

They are legion. Do a websearch for "paternity fraud" and find out for yourself.

[nathanbedford]

We are all being dense here. Don't you get it? The issue is not individual rights but the right of the GROUP. The individual father is but a cypher, an inconvenient member of a despised group.

The mother, never mind how guilty individually, is not to be punished because she is a member of a higher ranking group.

Children, as a group, trump all other groups except the aged and those of the favored race.

The rights of an innocent father cannot count because, by definition, he cannot be innocent.

[constable tom]

At least on this issue, you are morally bankrupt and completely in the wrong. It is pure illogic to think there is any justification at all for extracting child support payments from a man when it is scientifically proven he did not father the child. The fact that a lie was successfully perpetrated for some period of time before a paternity test settled the matter does not alter the correct application of justice. Neither does the fact that the duped "father" and child have established a bond. Fraud is fraud is fraud. If an adult enters into any relationship or takes on any apparent responsibility absent informed consent, they cannot be bound to that relationship or responsibility. It works this way in every other case except current child support laws. Which makes absolutely no sense, especially considering the actual responsible party exists and is known to the party who perpetrated the fraud. Simply forcing the woman to admit the identity of the true father and verifying the fact scientifically provides the remedy for any financial concerns you have about the children.

Emotional concerns are another matter and can never really be addressed by law. It is a personal moral decision each adult needs to make. Certainly, a woman who has lied both to a man and her child/children about who the biological father is has already done serious emotional damage to both the duped man and her own children. That duped man should have the right to decide for himself whether he wants to continue a relationship with those children (if a bond has been established). You cannot force people to love other people.

[knak]

re: boasts of prowess

that's testosterone, boys will be boys

re: contempt for women?

they have contempt for LIARS! women who "pick" someone to be daddy

and women like you who defend the LYING women

[alpowolf]

You seem to be so enamored of the "show" that you missed the actual facts. In these cases hiring a lawyer is futile; the only difference it will make is that instead of being in hock to one slut, the man is in hock to two.

[Nick Danger]

I'm just awfully curious as to why this paternity-switching is such an obsession.

Why are any of us here? Why did members of the DC Chapter just go stand in the freezing cold to Freep Al Gore at a book signing? Why did Jeff Head involve himself in the problems of some Klamath farmers?

Why would you think that someone must have a personal stake in the outcome in order to protest injustice? What kind of world would we live in if everyone followed your apparent algorithm of ignoring all bad things until they have a personal, immediate, impact?

Whatever happened to standing up for truth, for its own sake? When was "normalcy" defined as watching horrible injustice take place, and doing nothing about it? Perhaps in your world, nothing matters unless it affects you personally, but thank God there are others who do not share your views.

[Mamzelle]

I don't think bb's had his nest switched, if you're asking for a theory. I think he's got some freefloating resentment and he does start a lot of thread on sexual issues--generally to the disreputation of women. Since offered for discussion, I shouldn't be interested? I'm part of the group held in disdain, I can offer no defense? Being a helpless woman, and all. I get interested in lots of different arguments on FR, and sexual conflicts are not boring.

[PayrollOffice]

If you can come up with some way to punish Mommy without punishing Child, please offer it. I can't think of one.

If noone's already suggested it, here's one:

Give the support-paying non-biological dad the option of full custody of the child. He as already bonded with the child, and the child should be taken away from the defrauding mother for the his/her benefit. The defrauding mom should have to pay child support to the father.

[BuddhaBoy]

I applaud your post, even though I dont agree with it.

The reason for that, is that I have personally witnessed supposedly "qualified" women change into the "courtesan-prostitute" you describe, once made aware of their power when aligned with the Court system.

I dont think it is possible to know one's true nature ahead of time. Every marriage is a crap-shoot, and while some get lucky, most do not.

Things were not always as they are today, so we have to ask ourselves what changed. I submit that what has changed are the legal system for women in America, and women's attitude towards men, with influence from the Feminists.

50 years ago, Men were a respected commodity, for which women sought fairly and earnestly. Nowadays, Men's MONEY is the only thing that is respected, and sought for many women, and they make no secret of this.

When the State colludes with women through their legal licences (marriage and birth certificates) to lay claim to a man's money without benefit of due process, or adherence to LAW, then men must avoid having their names on those licences which allow such behaviour to take place.

I respect your opinion, and welcome your response.

[Mamzelle]

There are outrageous examples of injustice. There are teams of punks and lawyers in cities setting up bogus car accidents as we speak. Extrapolating from extreme cases to a generalized threat to manhood is not reasonable.

[BuddhaBoy]

Sexual prowess: "a bad thing". - Mamzelle.

Actually, you will find no such thing, and you merely made up another strawman.

While I admit to sexual activity, the truth regarding "prowess" is in the eye of the beholder, for whom I choose not to speak for, and have not ANYWHERE on FR.

It is the activity itself that you cant stand, so you have made this personal. You are digging quite a hole for yourself, dear.

I am now going to step back and watch as you self-destruct. Why should I get in the way?

[Mamzelle]

Excellent. I like it, but it's not likely to happen. Custody of children over age five ought to be awarded to the father, anyway, unless proven unfit.

[knak]

50 years ago, Men were a respected commodity, for which women sought fairly and earnestly. Nowadays, Men's MONEY is the only thing that is respected, and sought for many women, and they make no secret of this.

That last part isn't true. May be for some but not all. You should make that point. If you believe it.

[BuddhaBoy]

Well put. Thank you.

[BuddhaBoy]

I didnt mean to generalize, and I thought I avoided it by my "many women" words. I should have said "some, not all" as you did.

[knak]

ok, thanks! Now continue! You're doing good.

[constable tom]

Thank you, knak, for proving there are moral women left in the world capable of perceiving how wrong this issue is and exposing those who would support it for what they are: man-hating liars for whom no rationalization is too base ("won't somebody please think of the children!") as long as the group they associate themselves with (womyn, as opposed to only honorable women) gets the upper hand. It's a pity there don't seem to be more like you these days.

[Mamzelle]

I'd offer you my vinaigrette, but it wouldn't work across the keyboard.

[knak]

excuse me, you lost me on that one

[alpowolf]

These cases are not the cause of the threat to manhood, they are one of the symptoms.