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Jeffrey Amherst and Smallpox Blankets
NativeWeb.org ^ | Peter d'Errico

Posted on 12/05/2002 4:54:44 PM PST by Sabertooth

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To: dennisw
I saw "Black Robe" years ago so the particulars escape me. No way can it be as accurate or deep as the sources you mention.

That's true, but the material in the Jesuit Relations could make dozens of utterly fascinating movies with incredible characters, both European and Indian, without changing a whit of it. The trouble with Black Robe is the trouble with many historical movies made by the current crop in Hollywierd or film-making in general. They changed history to suit their own political fantasies. Honestly, in Black Robe, this tendency wasn't horrible, but once you've read the history, things start jumping out at you.
21 posted on 12/05/2002 6:47:52 PM PST by Antoninus
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To: Sabertooth
This was the topic of a spirited discussion in a viral pathology seminar I attended some years ago. The general consensus was that whatever the intent, it wouldn't have been that easy to contract smallpox in this manner as the variola virus is almost always spread by inhalation of the aerosols of sneezing or coughing. Virii don't, after all, make spores. By most accounts the blankets weren't particularly fresh, hence the more likely avenue of infection was direct contact with a person so recently infected that he didn't realize that he was seriously ill...yet. One of the traders, perhaps, or perhaps from another source that had nothing to do with the blankets themselves, perhaps even another Indian.

The effect of this virus and that of measles, on an unexposed population, is quite unimaginable in any direct sense - mortality rates of 80-95% are well-documented, and by 1643 the natives of North America had had about 150 years for chance to spread these organisms from those first exposed to European disease. Imagine the effect on today's America if aliens landed and only five of every hundred people survived the new diseases they brought! There could have been saints on both sides back then and even so, normal, amicable relations between them would probably never have had a chance. And it seems to me that neither side was heavily populated with saints.

Lest anyone apply this too much to the current situation, we have to remember that our current population is not an unexposed one. Everyone living today is a descendent of a survivor and hence carries a certain small resistance from that fact alone. That is one reason the horrible influenza epidemic of 1919 has not recurred. That doesn't mean we can't catch the disease, but it does mean that society won't, today, end up as devastated as 17th-century native Americans, although it wouldn't be pretty.

22 posted on 12/05/2002 6:51:52 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: dennisw
Torture was high entertainment for many Indians. So was war. Many (most) Indian wars were not over hunting grounds and scarce resources. They were for honor, for booty, to capture fertile women to increase the tribe.

True. Among the Iroquoian and Algonquin tribes, wars could spring up between two nations simply because a man of one had murdered a man of another. If the proper presents weren't made in recompense to the family of the murdered man, war would result. Once begun, wars seldom ended without the utter destruction and eradication of one tribe or the other. This was ensured by the practice of torturing and eating captives -- and creating more murdered victims to be revenged.
23 posted on 12/05/2002 6:53:12 PM PST by Antoninus
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Sounds like the American Indian descendants should be sitting down with the Brits to discuss reparations.
24 posted on 12/05/2002 6:53:44 PM PST by unequallawsuntoasavagerace
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To: Antoninus
The Indians were kidnapping settlers all over Massachusetts and forcing them to walk to Canada where they were aided by the French in holding them there.

They also raided the settlements and killed randomly.

The settlers were more inclined to kill only in self defense. That's why they built all those forts, so they would have a place to flee in the event of an attack.

Many were attacked while working in the fields. One of my direct ancestors was killed in just such an Indian raid, along with several others in PA. They cut out his heart and held it aloft on a knife. The Indian was shot and killed by a man named Hardin (Hardin County KY is named after him I think).

There are two sides to every issue.

25 posted on 12/05/2002 6:56:14 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Antoninus


Good info on "Black Robe" sources. The Parkman book is mentioned:

http://www.lehigh.edu/~ineng/rok6/rok6-source.html

http://www.lehigh.edu/~ineng/rok6/rok6-title.html
26 posted on 12/05/2002 6:58:22 PM PST by dennisw
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To: Aliska
The Indians were kidnapping settlers all over Massachusetts and forcing them to walk to Canada where they were aided by the French in holding them there. They also raided the settlements and killed randomly.

Yep. During King Phillip's War in New England in the early 18th century, such tactics were par for the course for the Indian war parties which prefered to attack softer targets like individual settlements, rather than the armed militia sent out against them (though, if I remember correctly, they had success against the colonial militias, too.)
27 posted on 12/05/2002 7:05:14 PM PST by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
Many did survive the ordeal; interestingly they didn't murder them all and after several months or couple of years, they were released. Others died because they were weakened.

They were conducting terrorism against the colonists. Because the colonists had to fight back, they are considered by historians of committing genocide.

Do you think the early colonists would be considered illegal aliens? I know they had permission from their governments to emigrate.

28 posted on 12/05/2002 7:13:46 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Sabertooth
Thanks for the heads up!
29 posted on 12/05/2002 7:19:21 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Aliska
Do you think the early colonists would be considered illegal aliens? I know they had permission from their governments to emigrate.

It's funny. I once posed that question in reverse to someone who took up the usual "Evil Europeans" mantra. Did the European colonists have a right to settle in North America? My opponent sniffed out the trap immediately and realized that if she said no, then the counter argument was: "Well, then what right do illegal immigrants have to come here today?" She simply said, yes, the Europeans did have a right to come here and settle.
30 posted on 12/05/2002 7:37:54 PM PST by Antoninus
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To: Antoninus
I didn't pose the question as a trap. I was wondering if our ancestors had a right to come here. It was unilateral; permission was given by the monarchs of Europe, but the indigenous peoples evidently had no say in the matter. Sticky wicket.

Oh well.

31 posted on 12/05/2002 7:45:38 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Sabertooth
Why ping me?

My savage and pagan ancestors were decimated by my savage and christian ancestors.For USA citizens who can trace their familial history back at least 100 years or more,such is the truth.

For such as I,who heard the words of a step-grandfather who talked to me of his life growing up the son of a Cherokee squaw and a BIA reservation master, what is the point?

I vividly remember my quarter breed mother being ostracised by my fathers family in the 1960s.I learned of racial hatred at my fraternal white grandmothers knee.She was always too stupid to realise she taught me to hate her, instead of my mother.I look caucasion, at first glance.My daughter is even a blonde, and has no physical hint of her matriarchal heritage.

This is all history, and we should learn the lessons tendered, but not continue the battles and wars of past savagery.How would I choose the right side?

As a "mixed breed",I find it incredibly insulting that people try to re-write history to make one side or the other look more noble or moral, vs the evil other.I do not see the gain for anyone in ignoring the truth of the depravity of my savage ancestors, no matter which "side" they were on.

I refuse to pay for the sins of my fore-fathers.I am only on the hook for what I say and do now.And I say now, all the legal inhabitants of the USA have a new enemy to defeat.If we do not hang together, we will surely hang separately.

32 posted on 12/05/2002 7:52:09 PM PST by sarasmom
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To: Sabertooth
Certainly this should receive greater attention and acclaim.

It would appear that Mr. Amherst was a genius, in the sense that he anticipated the "germ theory" of disease by more than a hundred years!

What a pretender that Pasteur is!

This general knew not only the cause of the disease, but had developed techniques for its spread. I hope Saddam doesn't read this post.

33 posted on 12/05/2002 8:03:44 PM PST by DrNo
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To: DrNo
The germ theory was the foundation of numerous applications, such as the large scale brewing of beer, wine-making, pasteurization, and antiseptic operations. Another significant discovery facilitated by the germ theory was the nature of contagious diseases. Pasteur's intuited that if germs were the cause of fermentation, they could just as well be the cause of contagious diseases. This proved to be true for many diseases such as potato blight, silkworm diseases, and anthrax. After studying the characteristics of germs and viruses that caused diseases, he and others found that laboratory manipulations of the infectious agents can be used to immunize people and animals. The discovery that the rabies virus had a lag-time before inducing disease prompted the studies of post-infection treatment with weakened viruses. This treatment proved to work and has saved countless lives.

from Louis Pasteur (1822-1895)

34 posted on 12/05/2002 8:07:36 PM PST by DrNo
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To: Sabertooth; stand watie
..honey, this is in every US high school history book.. the American Imperialists are proud of killing Native Americans... this ain't no secret or tin foil hat issue. This is what white men are all about... deal with it. (by the way, you might wanna read the original 4th amendment to the US Constitution, and you might wanna take your lotrimim before you do so)
35 posted on 12/05/2002 10:31:19 PM PST by japaneseghost
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To: japaneseghost
Sort of like how the Japanese killed off the Ainu? :)Unfortunatley, humanity tends to kill off people perceived to be as others. Suffice to say that there were atrocities committed on both sides and the issues are far from being resolved. The Ghost Dance is still being performed in remote areas and some Native Americans believe that the fulfillment of the Ghost Dance Prophecy is nigh and that the coming war will initiate it. Not so sure of it myself.
36 posted on 12/05/2002 10:45:23 PM PST by Eternal_Bear
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To: DrNo
It would appear that Mr. Amherst was a genius, in the sense that he anticipated the "germ theory" of disease by more than a hundred years! What a pretender that Pasteur is!

LOL! Thanks for the info.

37 posted on 12/05/2002 11:10:48 PM PST by vikingchick
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To: dennisw
That's an excellent movie about a little remembered time in America's past. It's hard to appreciate that the movie tones down some of the savagery that the Jesuit witnessed and recorded in his journal. Those Indians were a tough breed.
38 posted on 12/05/2002 11:55:07 PM PST by Pelham
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To: longshadow; PatrickHenry
Of interest...
39 posted on 12/06/2002 12:02:44 AM PST by Scully
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To: Sabertooth
Western Europe's leading schools of medecine didn't even begin teaching about bacteria, or even viruses, as infectious causes of disease until quite late in the 19th century.

After Fort Ticonderoga was overun by French and Indian Forces the Indians took blankets from the Fort as booty. Yes, smallpox was present at Fort Ticonderoga. It was present throughout the North American colonies. It is vicious nonsense for this article to imply or state that smallpox was purposefully spread when colonists themselves had no knowledge of how diseases spread.

This is so much crap!

40 posted on 12/06/2002 1:54:20 AM PST by goody2shooz
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