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Sorry if this is already posted somewhere.
1 posted on 12/05/2002 2:34:24 PM PST by Sender
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To: Sender
Consider the source ;)
2 posted on 12/05/2002 2:34:59 PM PST by strela
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To: *bang_list
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list
3 posted on 12/05/2002 2:37:28 PM PST by Free the USA
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To: Sender
Don't panic. Most of what the freak-show circuit hands down usually gets overturned upon presentation to the USSC. The 9th circuit is a bastion of left wing activist judges. These are the dirtbags who feel they can dismantle our constitution via judicial action. I would love to see W put a Scalia-minded justice in their court!!
7 posted on 12/05/2002 2:52:58 PM PST by Constitutional Patriot
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To: Sender
Judge Reinhardt

Enough said.
8 posted on 12/05/2002 2:54:06 PM PST by B-bone
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To: Sender
Which Bill of Rights is this guy reading?!
11 posted on 12/05/2002 2:59:57 PM PST by Goldilocks
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To: Sender
Aren't they the ones who always get smacked down by SCOTUS?
12 posted on 12/05/2002 3:00:05 PM PST by Unknown Freeper
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To: Sender
Another dog 'n pony show at the 9th Circus.
13 posted on 12/05/2002 3:02:21 PM PST by caisson71
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To: Sender
These people are obviously derelict in their oathes and need to be removed. What a bunch of maroons. This essentially means that all of their rulings are void and unenforcable.
15 posted on 12/05/2002 3:04:16 PM PST by ApesForEvolution
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To: Sender
They can't be this stupid, so they have to be evil.
20 posted on 12/05/2002 3:05:43 PM PST by copycat
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To: Sender
The opinion cites Bellesiles in the first footnote! (Regarding the enactment of the NFA '34)

The footnote also discusses the capability of "spray fire" by semi-auto "assault weapons" (what I call "Sport Utility Rifles" or Homeland Defense Rifles".)

A quote from p. 14: "In Miller, the Supreme Court decided that because a weapon was not suitable for use in the militia, its possession was not protected by the Second Amendment. As a result of its phrasing of its holding in the negative, however, the Miller court's opinion stands only for the proposition that the possession of certain weapons is not protected, and offers little guiidance as to what rights the Second Amendment does protect... What Miller does strongly imply, however, is that the Supreme Court rejects the traditional individual rights view."

On page 33, they hold that the phrase "keep and bear" "does NOT protect the right to 'possess' or 'own' firearms." Instead, they hold that this phrase has a military connotation. (They may even be right, but the point is that one needs to own and possess arms so that one can be prepared to engage in military action against a tyrannical government to preserve "the security of a FREE state.")
28 posted on 12/05/2002 3:41:01 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: Sender
The judges struck down the portion of the law that allowed an exemption for retired police officers to own "assault" weapons.
30 posted on 12/05/2002 3:54:55 PM PST by Mini-14
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To: Thud
This is a 9th Circuit screw up. The Texas Federal circuit (5th?) declared the 2nd Amendment to be an individual right with some really deep scholorship on the part of the ruling judge.

This is the NRA's dream case.

31 posted on 12/05/2002 4:03:33 PM PST by Dark Wing
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To: Sender
"Because the Second Amendment does not confer an individual right to own or possess arms, we affirm the dismissal of all claims brought pursuant to that constitutional provision."

They've left themselves wide open here - when the Supreme Court comes down with a strongly worded individual rights interpretation in concurrance with the Fifth Circuit, their entire basis for upholding the AW ban falls apart.
37 posted on 12/05/2002 5:47:04 PM PST by mvpel
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To: Sender
http://www.claytoncramer.com/weblog/2002_12_01_archive.html#85556032

The Ninth Circus Court of Appeals Once Again Demonstrates Its Scholarship

SILVEIRA v. LOCKYER, in which a suit against California's assault weapons law asserted that the Second Amendment protected an individual right. Judge Reinhardt's opinion is one that only a gun control advocate could have written.

Despite the increased attention by commentators and political interest groups to the question of what exactly the Second Amendment protects, with the sole exception of the Fifth Circuit’s Emerson decision there exists no thorough judicial examination of the amendment’s meaning.
Except, of course, that this is incorrect. There is an extensive set of decisions which examine the meaning of the Second Amendment, some in considerable detail, but these decisions have been overwhelmingly in state supreme courts.

The following is a list of state supreme court decisions that have, when an individual appealed to the Second Amendment's protections, the court, rather than deny an individual right was protected, did one of the following:


1. Struck down a gun control law;


2. Claimed that the Second Amendment was only was a limitation on the federal government with respect to individual rights, but did not restrict state laws;


3. Claimed the Second Amendment only restricted the federal government, but struck down a law based on a state RKBA provision;


4. Found some other basis for upholding a law, without denying the claim that the Second Amendment protected an individual right;


5. Found that the Second Amendment protected an individual right, but found some method to harmonize a gun control law based on the idea that this was "reasonable regulation," or that the weapons regulated were not protected.


In short, these decisions refused to make this silly claim that the Second Amendment doesn't protect an individual right.


NOTE BENE: I do NOT claim that every decision on the list below found an absolute right to keep and bear arms, or an unlimited right. In some of the decisions, the court has clearly found a way to avoid directly striking down a law by one of the items listed 2-5 above.


I have also excluded a number of appellate court decisions -- but about as many from all three lists below. I also haven't included any of the federal decisions, most of which acknowledge explicitly or implicitly that the Second Amendment protects an individual right.


Aymette v. State, 2 Hump. (21 Tenn.) 154 (1840)
State v. Newsom, 5 Iredell 181, 27 N.C. 250 (1844)
Nunn v. State, 1 Ga. 243 (1846)
State v. Chandler, 5 La. An. 489 (1850)
Smith v. State, 11 La. An. 633 (1856)
State v. Jumel, 13 La. An. 399 (1858)
Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394 (1859)
Andrews v. State, 3 Heisk. (50 Tenn.) 165 (1871)
Fife v. State, 31 Ark. 455, 25 Am. Rep. 556 (1876)
English v. State, 35 Tex. 473 (1872)
State v. Duke, 42 Tex. 455 (1875)
State v. Hill, 53 Ga. 472 (1874)
State v. Wilforth, 74 Mo. 528 (1881)
State v. Workman, 35 W.Va. 367 (1891)
In Re Brickey, 8 Ida. 597, 70 Pac. 609, 101 Am. St. Rep. 215 (1902)
Strickland v. State, 137 Ga. 1, 72 S.E. 260 (1911)
People v. Persce, 204 N.Y. 397 (1912)
State v. Keet, 269 Mo. 206, 190 S.W. 573 (1916)
State v. Kerner, 181 N.C. 574, 107 S.E. 222 (1921)
State v. Nieto, 101 Ohio St. 409, 130 N.E. 663 (1920)
State v. Woodward, 58 Ida. 385, 74 P.2d 92 (1937)
State v. Hart, 66 Ida. 217, 157 P.2d 72 (1945)
Watson V. Stone, 4 So.2d 700 (Fla. 1941)
People v. Liss, 406 Ill. 419, 94 N.E.2d 320 (1950)
State v. Nickerson, 126 Mont. 157 (1952)
In re Rameriz, 193 Cal. 633, 226 P. 914 (1924)
Application of Grauling, 17 Misc.2d 215, 183 N.Y.S.2d 654 (1959)
Burton v. Sills, 99 N.J.Super. 459 (1968)
Grimm v. City of New York, 56 Misc.2d 525, 289 N.Y.S.2d 358 (1968)
Guida v. Dier, 84 Misc.2d 110, 375 N.Y.S.2d 826 (1975)
Rinzler v. Carson, 262 So.2d 661 (Fla. 1972)
Mosher v. City of Dayton, 48 Ohio St.2d 243, 358 N.E.2d 540 (1976)
Kellogg v. City of Gary, 462 N.E.2d 685 (Ind. 1990)
State v. Kessler, 289 Or. 359 (1980)
City Of Princeton v. Buckner, 377 S.E.2d 139, 142, 143 (W.Va. 1988)


The following decisions strongly implied that an individual right was
protected by the Second Amendment:


State v. Angelo, 3 N.J.Misc. 1014, 130 A. 458 (1925)
State v. Sanne, 116 N.H. 583, 364 A.2d 630 (1976)
Rabbitt v. Leonard, 36 Conn. Sup. 108 (1979)


The following state supreme court decisons have denied the Second
Amendment protects an individual right:


State v. Buzzard, 4 Ark. 18 (1842)
Harris v. State, 432 P.2d 929 (Nev. 1967)
State v. Vlacil, 645 P.2d 677 (Utah 1982) (but see Justice Oaks' concurring opinion)
Commonwealth v. Davis, 343 N.E.2d 847 (Mass. 1976)
Application of Atkinson, 291 N.W.2d 396 (Minn. 1980)


Unsurprisingly, Reinhardt quotes at length from the one-sided Chicago-Kent Law Review symposium issue published two years ago in which only those opposed to the individual rights view were invited--and paid for their articles. (This is almost unheard in scholarly publications.) Of course, Reinhardt cites the well-known soon-to-be former Professor Michael Bellesiles for support for the collective rights view, apparently unaware or unconcerned about Bellesiles's scholarly integrity problem.


This is the sort of decision I expect from the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals: long on verbal sleight of hand, short on examination of original sources, very trusting of gun control advocate opinions.
posted by Clayton at 1:10 PM

38 posted on 12/05/2002 5:50:58 PM PST by Leisler
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To: Sender
Every single bit of faith I have in the United States Supreme Court hinges on whether or not they decide to weigh the counter-judgements from the 9th and 5th Circuit Courts.

This is the fundamental test for SCOTUS. This is the kind of case that Freepers who posted 'this is not the case we want in front of SCOTUS' on the Emerson threads were waiting for, right?

Am I right, or am I wrong?

39 posted on 12/05/2002 5:54:01 PM PST by The KG9 Kid
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To: Sender
A VERY IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE:

This opinion was from a three-judge panel of the Ninth Circuit. There is another three-judge panel reviewing the Nordyke v. King Alameda County gun show ban case that has yet to present its opinion. In that case, attorney Don Kilmer was able to submit supplemental briefing on the Fifth Circuit Emerson decision.

The problem is, the prior position of the Ninth that the 2nd Amendment is not an individual right was set forth by a three-judge panel. Another three-judge panel may not overturn that, however, the next step is an en-banc hearing before the entire Ninth Circuit, followed by a Supreme Court appeal.

I'll review this decision, and see how easily it can be dismantled. A "strong rebuttal" has a different meaning if you're an ignorant anti-gun newspaper reporter than if you're a knowledgeable researcher.
40 posted on 12/05/2002 5:59:19 PM PST by mvpel
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To: Sender
I would say that this ruling is a very good first step in starting an armed revolution
54 posted on 12/06/2002 10:22:37 AM PST by 1redshirt
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To: Sender
My question for dicussion:

If the USSC overturns this 9th circuit decision, by finding that the 2nd is a right of individuals, can they rule in a manner that narrowly restores the rights of Californians without also overruling the various import bans, the 1986 law that halted production of civilian-ownable machine guns, and even the NFA of 1934?

Or is there a way that the supremes could overrule the 9th without going this far?
62 posted on 12/06/2002 12:57:24 PM PST by Atlas Sneezed
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To: Sender
Looks every inch the pompous elitist that he is.

Title of address Judge Reinhardt gave the Harvard Law School Forum: "The Supreme Court and You: Birth, Death and the Quality of Life."

64 posted on 12/06/2002 2:39:11 PM PST by shhrubbery!
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