Quick Heads Up: Did I Hear Right? Hackworth Called Cheney a Draft Dodger?

[k2blader]

No, not in the classical sense (e.g. the rapist klinton). But, his statement that he would have been happy to serve is BS.

Thank you for answering. :)

I *think* I hear what you're saying; although (IMNSHO) it's an argument of semantics.

[umbagi]

I didn't compare anyone to Clinton; this isn't a discussion of Clinton. If he'd played by the rules, I'd certainly have considered him a leader-in-training better placed somewhere besides Viet Nam.

One need not agree with me in all things to be "serving ones country" through non-military service, and that issue had nothing to do with the two votes I proudly cast against him.

[jwalsh07]

My heart rate is 47 as I sit here. If I get any calmer, I'll expire.

[freebilly]

US Grant was a horrible president. Carter was a laughable president. McCain is a nutcase. Kerry is a egomaniacal fool.

Service in the military NEVER qualifies a president to make decisions affecting the nation.

[k2blader]

I think you have conclusively established that our VP is no draft dodger.

The facts do appear to bear that out. ;)

Scary how it seems those arguing the opposite are somehow equating “receiving deferments” and “draft dodging”?

[frnewsjunkie]

Cheney was married in 1964. That would have changed his draft status.

[cyncooper]

Actively going out of your way to AVOID military service would be draft dodging, not going out of your way to join up when it wasn't necessary ISN'T, IMO.

I agree completely.

[Nam68]

thanks for your kind words. Actually, I do believe that most of the people who work to get their candidates elected are good people and believe in what their doing. And most politicians probably start out with honorable intentions. They just stay in DC or their state capital's too long. They need to serve one or two terms, get out, and live under their legislation like the rest of us. And then they can get a real job or start a real business - which would make a real contribution to our country.

I am only a small l libertarian. I could never bring myself to join the LP and I'd choose death over being a democrat. I don't expect to find some perfect party that I agree with on everything. If the Republican party would just move back to the right a little bit. Whatever happened to the concept of limited government? Eliminate one litte agency. I know Pres. Bush has a lot on his plate, but just one little step towards old fashioned conservatism is all I ask.

[higgmeister]

Abe Lincoln didn't send his kids into battle. Of course they were too young, so maybe he should've been disqualified from running for office? I don't see the logic.

Robert spent only a short period of time at the Harvard Law School. It isn't exactly clear why he left. By the end of the year he was living at the White House. Early in 1865 (after his father had written Ulysses S. Grant a letter) Robert joined General Grant's staff as a captain. Captain Lincoln's main duty as an army officer was that of escorting visitors to various locations. Additionally, he was present at Appomattox when Robert E. Lee surrendered to Grant.

[frnewsjunkie]

1966

January 31: The bombing of the North is resumed after failure of the "peace offensive" that was designed to promote negotiations. Johnson ends automatic draft deferments for college students.

http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:wuk-C020L0cC:www.people.memphis.edu/~sherman/chronoVN.htm+draft+deferments,+1959&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[contessa machiaveli]

i happen to agree with you. i didn't know one person who served in viet nam. wars are fought by the poor and i'll be the first to admit it and yes, we did a great disservice to the men who went to viet nam.

[sneakypete]

I had to use pull to get to go to Viet Nam.

I did,too.Despite what popular opinion would have you believe,there were some units and MOS's in VN that had a waiting list. I managed to get the private phone number of a VERY nice and special lady who handled SF assignments in the Pentagram,and she got me assigned there within 30 days. People think being drafted or joining automatically meant a assignment to VN,and the reality is I know of people who actually re-enlisted in order to get the guarantee they would be sent there. I also knew a couple of Canadians who enlisted in the US Army to go there,as well as a couple of former British SAS guys. Amazing,ain't it?

[El Gato]

Maneuvering his way out of military service via student deferments until he was safely married and invulnerable to his country's call.

He started college in 1960 or '61, (He started at Yale but switched to and graduated from U.of Wyoming, graduating in '65 and got an MA in '66) before most Americans had even heard of Vietnam. Was he going to college to get out ot the draft, or just because he wanted to go to college? By the time he got out, he was 24 years old, and married with a kid on the way, he got married in '64. Did Lynn get pregant just so he wouldn't be drafted? I don't know the answer to the second question, but the answer to the first is most likely that he just went to college because he wanted to better himself, or party hearty or whatever, but not to dodge the draft. His "manuevering" was most likely just making choices he would have made anyway, draft or no draft.

[frnewsjunkie]

The key word there is "automatic".

Back then, if a young man was in college, he was automatically defered as long as his grades were satisfactory. The 1971 thing is something different.

[sneakypete]

In any event, Cheney, born in 1941 was slightly on the old end of the prime Vietnam era draft population.

One point I think a lot of people are missing is that getting drafted and serving didn't neccessarily mean serving in VN. LOTS of people were drafted before VN got going,and lots of people were drafted while it was. The majority never went there or anywhere else there was any danger.

[sneakypete]

As it is now (and I've heard it on FreeRepublic often enough) - people respond to military casualties with "They volunteered for it - who cares?"

Yup,but we need to focus on more important things,like doesn't Bubba-2 look just DREAMY in his new sombrero?

[El Gato]

Fighter pilot is not a safe occupation, even in peacetime

Most especially when the fighter was the F-102, although the F-104 was worse. It killed more Luftwaffe pilots than any allied Ace. :) Plus lots of Italians, Greeks and Turks, among others. Not so very many US pilots, but some of those too, mainly because USAF never had all that many.

[wardaddy]

Nearly all fellows in your line of work in particular had to really want to be there to get there anyhow didn't they?

My first cousin was a green beenie in 1967 or so and he did all his tour in Europe.

Did you ever work on any of that Mike Force stuff....not that it's my business. I just was thinking about a Montangnard documentary I saw a while back.

I also remember an early book about some SF guy who went into the Laotian highlands and went native with a local mountain tribe to organize them against the commies. The book even explained that some of these guys were obligated to have "special" relationships with tribal elders if the offering was made. I wish I could remember the book. This may have been really early post French collapse stuff.

Any truth to that?

[Cabbages and Kings]

I believe 'Hack' got off the train following 'Nam'. Pretty hard coming out of a war that your own goverment did'nt even try to win.