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Teens criticize 'CHIMP' math (fuzzy math alert)
Times Herald-Record ^ | Dec. 3, 2002 | April Capochino

Posted on 12/04/2002 9:41:55 AM PST by Lizavetta

Goshen – A new math curriculum plus confused students equals angry parents. At least when that new math curriculum is the Interactive Mathematics Program.

Under IMP, high school students learn from books that have more word problems than equations. Instead of traditional math instruction, IMP emphasizes students working in groups to solve a problem over the course of a few weeks.

Goshen has been using IMP for the past three years in its freshman, sophomore and junior classes. The district plans to add it to its 12th-grade curriculum next year.

But some parents want it gone.

"The whole program is a travesty," said parent Traude Ellert, who has made it her personal mission to convince the district to ax IMP. "It's like a cancer. We are using language arts books to teach math. I'm outraged as a taxpayer. Part of my money was used here."

IMP replaces the algebra, geometry, trigonometry and pre-calculus found in traditional math, where students are taught in a more structured setting and a teacher drills formulas. Students of IMP are taught in groups and spend weeks on one central problem or theme.

An IMP textbook states that it "does not teach directly." There is no index in the book for math concepts. Called "fuzzy math," IMP has received mixed reviews. In 1999, the U.S. Department of Education named it one of the nation's top five exemplary math programs in the country. But some Web sites call it a scam that frustrates parents and turns A and B students into C and D students.

Math is an exact science and IMP makes it cloudy, Ellert said.

"Don't mess with math," she said. "They messed with math and that's not OK."

Ellert, who teaches pre-GED courses at a state prison, began her own math group. Every Tuesday night for 90 minutes, she teaches math to a group of 16 freshmen, including her daughter, from a Math A Barron's Review Book.

The students meet in the art room of the high school, where Ellert gives homework assignments and rewards them with saltine crackers for correct answers. She doesn't get paid to teach and the students go on their own time, many sacrificing extra-curricular activities.

But they don't mind. It's better than learning what they call "CHIMP" math. "We call it CHIMP because it's so easy monkeys could do it," said freshman Katey Bischof, 14, an honors student. "We learned more in three weeks here (with Ellert) than we learned in three months in IMP class," said freshman Hillary Quinn, 14.

The students complain that there are no lessons, just stories; parents can't help them if they have questions because the book does not explain the math problems and the Math A Regents exam has nothing to do with IMP.

Goshen isn't the only school district with IMP. Newburgh also has the program but it is under review, said spokeswoman Rebecca Foster. By the end of next year, the Goshen School District will have spent about $65,000 funding IMP, said Superintendent James Langlois. The district added the program to adapt to changing Regents requirements.

By the time current freshmen graduate, they will have to pass English, U.S. history and global studies, math and science.

"We can no longer allow kids to slide by with the same understanding of math as they did in the past," Langlois said. "Everyone has to pass the Math A (Regents) exam." And that concerns parents.

"We're giving the tutors in the area a lot of business," said a mother, whose son is part of Ellert's group. "As soon as I saw the book, I saw a problem. I said, 'This is not math.' We need a blending of the old math and new math. I don't think anyone is against new and innovative ideas. But you need a basis."

But for Ellert, it's become a personal goal to get rid of the program. "I'm not stopping until this is gone," she said. "It's a travesty to the Goshen School District."

IMP word problem

IMP was created in 1989 by San Francisco State University professors Dan Fendel and Diane Resek. The program uses an integrated problem-based approach to teach algebra, geometry, trigonometry, probability and statistics. It is used in more than 350 schools across the country.

For more information, visit the IMP Web site at www.mathimp.org or contact Dan Fendel at 415-338-1805 or Diane Resek at 415-338-2071.

This is an example of an IMP word problem:

"Pick any answer"
Lai Yee has a new trick. He tells someone:
--Pick any number.
--Multiply by 2.
--Now add 8.
--Divide by 2.
--Subtract the number you started with.
--Your answer is 4.
1. Try out Lai Yee's trick. Is the answer always 4? If you think it always is, explain why. If not, explain why it sometimes will be something else.
2. Make up a trick whose answer will always be 5.
3. Pretend that someone gives you a number that he or she wants to be the answer. Using the variable A to stand for that number, make up a trick whose answer will always be A.

Source: Interactive Mathematics Program text book


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: education; educationnews; fuzzymath; schools
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To: meyer
I'm thinking that many people's perceptions of what constitutes word problems v. problem solving may be different than the perceptions of others.

I will try to give an example of each. to me, a word problem or a story problem can usually be worked out in a minute, two at most. In fact, some children will quit if they can not get an immediate answer.

Word Problem

Sound travels through air at a speed of 1,129 feet per second. At this rate, how far will sound travel in 1 minute?

Simple arithmetic can solve this problem. Not much thinking is required - just do more of what that lesson has been about.

Problem Solving/Critical Thinking

Create a multiplication problem where the product is 45.89 and one of the factors is a whole number.

This second problem has more than one answer. It can create some discussion in the class. Students must think! Their reasoning and explanations can let the teacher see the level of understanding reached, or where there may be additional teaching needed.

61 posted on 12/04/2002 7:13:52 PM PST by mathluv
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To: mathluv
Word Problem

Sound travels through air at a speed of 1,129 feet per second. At this rate, how far will sound travel in 1 minute?

Simple arithmetic can solve this problem. Not much thinking is required - just do more of what that lesson has been about.

Well, that kind of question might be appropriate to one who is learning to apply multiplication. The basis could be made more difficult if the problem also asked what the distance was, in meters if they were learning metric/imperial measurement conversions at the time. Its a basic problem, but one that is part of the stepping stones to learning higher math.

Problem Solving/Critical Thinking

Create a multiplication problem where the product is 45.89 and one of the factors is a whole number.

This second problem has more than one answer. It can create some discussion in the class. Students must think! Their reasoning and explanations can let the teacher see the level of understanding reached, or where there may be additional teaching needed.

OK, this produces a new concept, and isn't a bad problem even if it doesn't show a practicality to calculating such a number. It teaches perhaps a different kind of thinking to a student that is learning long division, but I don't really see the significance of discussing it for more than about 2 minutes. I mean, what's to discuss? Johnny divided by 4 and Judy divided by 5. Why? Because Johnny likes the number 4 better? BTW, I'm hoping that the students given this question have already been taught the relationship between multiplication and division.

I prefer my math to be both exact and practical. In that respect, I don't think I see the real relavance of the latter method.

I don't see either question being offered at the high school level. At an elementary level, perhaps. But remember that elementary math is just a building block towards higher level math, algebra, and beyond. So, the types of problems that are given to a student as they progress through the different concepts must be prepared with the long-term goal in mind. Frankly, I think the former does a better job of that than the latter as it illlustrates usefulness. If math isn't found useful, why would anybody be expected to learn it?

62 posted on 12/04/2002 7:37:25 PM PST by meyer
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To: Lizavetta
The Evolution of Math Teaching


63 posted on 12/04/2002 7:51:09 PM PST by FreedomCalls
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To: notpoliticallycorewrecked
Good God you were correct. All I can say is we need to disolve the F'ing Teachers Union and about 90% of the administrative jobs. The way they destroy kids just makes you want to fire these dolts instantly.

***********GROWL**************

64 posted on 12/04/2002 7:51:36 PM PST by A CA Guy
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To: meyer
Both of these examples are 6th grade. By discussion, finding out how and what a child thinks can help get them going in the direction you want them to go, or get them turned around if they are headed the wrong way.

BTW, I'm hoping that the students given this question have already been taught the relationship between multiplication and division. In today's classrooms, with IMP or Saxon (opposite ends of the spectrum), don't count on it.

Thinking and reasoning are very important in learning math. Math is not always about practicality. If so, use a calculator. Funtionality is based on thinking and reasoning and applying what you have learned.

Math is changing - in some good ways and some not so good ways. My first year to teach was when "new math" started. The texts were new, and I had not had any of it in college - (like graphing inequalities on a number line). My ex tried to help our first grade son, and could not do the math - <, > were new in the texts. Now things are getting moved down further in the curriculum, and basics are getting less emphasis. Manipulatives were new 20 years ago in the US (40 in Europe), and are rarely used now. There are times when they are very beneficial, but teachers tend to teach how they were taught. Many consider them too time consuming.

Finding certified teachers is hard, whether math or otherwise. There are too many who are ill-prepared. I blame a lot of this on universities. The profs that can do research get more time and money. Those that can teach get run off. Teachers are not highly valued in our society. Discipline is becoming non-existant in our schools. All of this leads to kids learning less.

65 posted on 12/04/2002 7:55:43 PM PST by mathluv
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To: conservativemusician
Just get you some tungsten wire and hook it up to a voltage source and run some current through that sucker, dude... Well ya might wanna make sure about the resistance dependence on temperature...
66 posted on 12/04/2002 8:13:06 PM PST by maxwell
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To: mathluv
NO Saxon users I know of count on their fingers. Anyone who uses Saxon correctly has a child who is doing math.
67 posted on 12/04/2002 8:18:48 PM PST by mlmr
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To: Young Werther
"But Edison did invent the 20th Century."

I have to disagree. If any one person could be said to have "invented the 20th Century" that person would be Tesla, IMHO. Edison was great, no doubt about it. However, Tesla's inventions and contributions had even more impact and even further reach than Edison's. Again, IMHO.

68 posted on 12/04/2002 8:21:19 PM PST by Billy_bob_bob
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To: meyer; mathluv
Create a multiplication problem where the product is 45.89 and one of the factors is a whole number. This second problem has more than one answer. It can create some discussion in the class. Students must think!

Actually it has an infinite number of answers, i.e. the set of integers. Real and imaginary both, I reckon... I don't think most kids would grasp that...

To get back to what you were saying about problem-solving, math, I see your point. I've been tutoring kiddies in algebra, etc. for a number of years, though, and one thing I see consistently is a lack of a basis by which to solve a problem at all... I think that is something that the Saxon curriculum addresses nicely...

69 posted on 12/04/2002 8:22:05 PM PST by maxwell
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To: MattAMiller
I do that, and I'm only a customer.
70 posted on 12/04/2002 8:25:16 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic
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To: mlmr
That may be true with kids being homeschooled, where parents are spending the time to teach math. I have seen kids counting on their fingers in the classroom. Teachers can not give the individual attention parents can.
71 posted on 12/04/2002 8:26:19 PM PST by mathluv
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To: maxwell
Actually, it is not the set of integers. It is the set of whole numbers. That excludes negatives.
72 posted on 12/04/2002 8:29:21 PM PST by mathluv
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To: maxwell
one thing I see consistently is a lack of a basis by which to solve a problem at all... I think that is something that the Saxon curriculum addresses nicely... I am guessing you mean real world application. I find very little of that in Saxon, compared to other books.
73 posted on 12/04/2002 8:31:21 PM PST by mathluv
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To: mathluv
Forgetting my math terminology here-- "whole numbers" = integers > 0?
74 posted on 12/04/2002 8:31:23 PM PST by maxwell
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To: maxwell
Whole Numbers = 0,1,2,3,...
75 posted on 12/04/2002 8:32:35 PM PST by mathluv
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To: maxwell
Does anybody know about the mathematical/scientific background, or lack thereof, of "San Francisco State University professors Dan Fendel and Diane Resek"?

Dan Fendel
Diane Resek

76 posted on 12/04/2002 8:33:14 PM PST by general_re
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To: general_re
Both are listed as profs of math. His degrees say BS math Phd math. Hers don't. Her interest say a lot - women and math, etc.

California is known for its "new" ideas for education. IMP is a good example. (/sarcasm)

77 posted on 12/04/2002 8:38:35 PM PST by mathluv
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To: mathluv
I am guessing you mean real world application. I find very little of that in Saxon, compared to other books.

Well I suppose we will have to part ways on that one.

I still think that once a good solid basis is set, that any half-way bright kid will see his way to extrapolate, interpolate, or do whatever he has to. I may not've learned what a whole number is, haha, but I could solve the heck out of a high school physics problem...

78 posted on 12/04/2002 8:38:45 PM PST by maxwell
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To: maxwell
And Physics is not my favorite subject!

And as I said, in comparison to other books. Have you seen other texts besides Saxon?

79 posted on 12/04/2002 8:40:15 PM PST by mathluv
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To: FreedomCalls
You left off the last one ;-)

Teaching Math in 2000: a logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $120. How does Arthur Andersen determine that his profit margin is $60?"

80 posted on 12/04/2002 8:41:59 PM PST by Spyder
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