Teens criticize 'CHIMP' math (fuzzy math alert)

Goshen – A new math curriculum plus confused students equals angry parents. At least when that new math curriculum is the Interactive Mathematics Program.

Under IMP, high school students learn from books that have more word problems than equations. Instead of traditional math instruction, IMP emphasizes students working in groups to solve a problem over the course of a few weeks.

Goshen has been using IMP for the past three years in its freshman, sophomore and junior classes. The district plans to add it to its 12th-grade curriculum next year.

"The whole program is a travesty," said parent Traude Ellert, who has made it her personal mission to convince the district to ax IMP. "It's like a cancer. We are using language arts books to teach math. I'm outraged as a taxpayer. Part of my money was used here."

IMP replaces the algebra, geometry, trigonometry and pre-calculus found in traditional math, where students are taught in a more structured setting and a teacher drills formulas. Students of IMP are taught in groups and spend weeks on one central problem or theme.

An IMP textbook states that it "does not teach directly." There is no index in the book for math concepts. Called "fuzzy math," IMP has received mixed reviews. In 1999, the U.S. Department of Education named it one of the nation's top five exemplary math programs in the country. But some Web sites call it a scam that frustrates parents and turns A and B students into C and D students.

Ellert, who teaches pre-GED courses at a state prison, began her own math group. Every Tuesday night for 90 minutes, she teaches math to a group of 16 freshmen, including her daughter, from a Math A Barron's Review Book.

The students meet in the art room of the high school, where Ellert gives homework assignments and rewards them with saltine crackers for correct answers. She doesn't get paid to teach and the students go on their own time, many sacrificing extra-curricular activities.

But they don't mind. It's better than learning what they call "CHIMP" math. "We call it CHIMP because it's so easy monkeys could do it," said freshman Katey Bischof, 14, an honors student. "We learned more in three weeks here (with Ellert) than we learned in three months in IMP class," said freshman Hillary Quinn, 14.

The students complain that there are no lessons, just stories; parents can't help them if they have questions because the book does not explain the math problems and the Math A Regents exam has nothing to do with IMP.

Goshen isn't the only school district with IMP. Newburgh also has the program but it is under review, said spokeswoman Rebecca Foster. By the end of next year, the Goshen School District will have spent about $65,000 funding IMP, said Superintendent James Langlois. The district added the program to adapt to changing Regents requirements.

By the time current freshmen graduate, they will have to pass English, U.S. history and global studies, math and science.

"We can no longer allow kids to slide by with the same understanding of math as they did in the past," Langlois said. "Everyone has to pass the Math A (Regents) exam." And that concerns parents.

"We're giving the tutors in the area a lot of business," said a mother, whose son is part of Ellert's group. "As soon as I saw the book, I saw a problem. I said, 'This is not math.' We need a blending of the old math and new math. I don't think anyone is against new and innovative ideas. But you need a basis."

But for Ellert, it's become a personal goal to get rid of the program. "I'm not stopping until this is gone," she said. "It's a travesty to the Goshen School District."

IMP was created in 1989 by San Francisco State University professors Dan Fendel and Diane Resek. The program uses an integrated problem-based approach to teach algebra, geometry, trigonometry, probability and statistics. It is used in more than 350 schools across the country.

For more information, visit the IMP Web site at www.mathimp.org or contact Dan Fendel at 415-338-1805 or Diane Resek at 415-338-2071.

"Pick any answer"
Lai Yee has a new trick. He tells someone:
--Pick any number.
--Multiply by 2.
--Now add 8.
--Divide by 2.
--Subtract the number you started with.
--Your answer is 4.
1. Try out Lai Yee's trick. Is the answer always 4? If you think it always is, explain why. If not, explain why it sometimes will be something else.
2. Make up a trick whose answer will always be 5.
3. Pretend that someone gives you a number that he or she wants to be the answer. Using the variable A to stand for that number, make up a trick whose answer will always be A.

"Thank God for homeschooling and SAXON math."

Last year was the Math Year From He!l for my then 4th grader. I could really see how ill prepared and confused she was about math and bought the Saxon 5/4 book to cover what she already knew and give her a head start for 5th grade. It helped a bunch.

This year, she was totally confused by decimals. So, I pulled out the Saxon book, went over the lesson, step by step, and the light bulb went off in her head within 5 minutes. Her Publicly Issued Math Book is full of many lovely PC pictures of multi-ethnic school children, but does little in explaining the concept and application of decimals (and fractions).

Dasa/homeschool mom wannabe

1990
By cutting down beautiful forest trees, a logger makes $20. What do you think of this way of making a living?
Topic for Class Participation: How do the forest birds and squirrels feel?
_____________________________
This is NOT an exaggeration. I've seen similar with my own two eyes (which fall out on the floor regularly because of this garbage) beginning in our 1st grade math curriculum.

......First grader makes pretty flower with the petals containing all the fact families for a given number. First Grader then colors the pretty flower after writing in fact families. First grader must then draw a "face" describing if making the pretty flower with numbers in it made them feel "happy" (draw happy face) or "sad" (draw sad face).

Math has changed - not just teaching methods. I gave you two examples. Another is fractals -Benoit Mandelbrot, a mathematician at IBM, is an expert in processes with unusual statistical properties, such as those in which a random variable's average or its variance is infinite. His early work in the 1950's and 1960's suggested that the variations in stock market prices, the probabilities of words in English, and the fluctuations in turbulent fluids, might be modeled by such strange processes. Later he came to study the geometric features of these processes and realized that one unifying aspect was their self-similarity. In the mid-1970s he coined the word "fractal" as a label for the underlying objects, since they had fractional dimensions. Fractals are shapes or behaviors that have similar properties at all levels of magnification or across all times. Just as the sphere is a concept that unites raindrops, basketballs, and Mars, so fractals are a concept that unites clouds, coastlines, plants, and chaotic attractors. .

The field of statistics has also changed - box-and-whisker plots, stem and leaf plots, scatter plots, etc. Math is not static.

When my grandson was 3, he came running to me to see if he could have a Rice Krispie threat. I told him he could if there were enough for him, his brother, and his sister. He said he had one in his hand and there were two more in the kitchen, so that meant there were enough. THIS IS PROBLEM SOLVING - THINKING. Kids learn to walk, talk, etc before they enter school. PROBLEM SOLVING IS NOT A WORD PROBLEM. Abstract princiipals increase in difficulty as they grow older, but they are always there.

Her Publicly Issued Math Book is full of many lovely PC pictures of multi-ethnic school children, but does little in explaining the concept and application of decimals (and fractions).

That sounds like a real problem. I really need to take a look at what kids are using in school today.

On the brighter side, and not related to math, my friend's 14 year old daughter is reading "Animal Farm" as an assignment. All is NOT lost!

Math has changed - not just teaching methods. I gave you two examples.

What you showed me isn't exactly new, though "manipulatives" seems to cover a broad range of teaching methods from the logical hands-on to the down right silly.

Another is fractals -Benoit Mandelbrot, a mathematician at IBM, is an expert in processes with unusual statistical properties, such as those in which a random variable's average or its variance is infinite. His early work in the 1950's and 1960's suggested that the variations in stock market prices, the probabilities of words in English, and the fluctuations in turbulent fluids, might be modeled by such strange processes. Later he came to study the geometric features of these processes and realized that one unifying aspect was their self-similarity. In the mid-1970s he coined the word "fractal" as a label for the underlying objects, since they had fractional dimensions. Fractals are shapes or behaviors that have similar properties at all levels of magnification or across all times. Just as the sphere is a concept that unites raindrops, basketballs, and Mars, so fractals are a concept that unites clouds, coastlines, plants, and chaotic attractors. .

Well, I've yet to see somebody mathematically predict, with consistent accuracy, the movement of the stock market. :^) That said, this is application, not fundamental math IMHO. And, its much higher level than the 6th grade class that you teach.

The field of statistics has also changed - box-and-whisker plots, stem and leaf plots, scatter plots, etc. Math is not static.

I'll concede that these are also progressions to math. But none of this changes the fundamentals of math - addition, subtraction, division, multiplication, fractions, algebra, trig, and basic calculus. The basics must be understood before one delves into higher orders of math.

You can't calculate the volume of a sphere if you can't perform the basics. And the best way to learn the basics is through progressively drilling, applying, and building upon previously learned material. Yes, that includes 'problem solving', but your definition of problem solving and mine are completely different.

I donot support any teachers union, or any union for that matter. I live in a right to work state, and think it is ridiculus to have to belong to a union to get a job. I am also very conservative. I have seen good and bad in homeschooling ( from a good excuse to spend the day at the mall to parents who are knowledgable themselves and want their children in a safe, Christian environment to learn their values). I have seen good and bad in the classroom - teachers who don't know the content they are trying to teach, or who do have an agenda. I want kids to learn MATH, to learn PROBLEM SOLVING, to learn how to REASON & THINK. Saxon can work for some kids, but I would NEVER use it myself. Doing only a few problems per lesson on the subject being taught, with the rest review, is often not enough to learn the new material. Homeschoolers can spend all day on adding if they desire or need to. In the classroom, students have less than a hour per day.

Saying Saxon is the most successful curriculum to come along in decades in your opinion. I have seen no research to support that - and often research can be manipulated to show what the researcher wants shown. I am not attacking Saxon - as I said, it works for some. It is just not manna from heaven, which some Saxon users seem to infer.

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