Police Seize Home Arsenal Fire Alerts Authorities to Nearly 500 (legal) Weapons

The Asbury Park Press ^ | 12-03-02 | Michael Clancy

[Terriergal]

Geez I guess the man, in the midst of being in emergency mode, forgot to say "pretty please" -- does that warrant grabbing a gun? Give the firefighters a break. They risk their lives every day. You sound like the people who criticize the military for every bit of collateral damage it incurs while acting against terrorists.

[DAnconia55]

What do you collect, Beanie Babies?

I vote for live gerbils and duct tape....

[Terriergal]

BINGO!

[Gore_ War_ Vet]

Thoughts on this story and the man's run-in with police?

How about this?

Arford, a civilian Army employee, was arrested by Patrolman John Lehnert and charged with aggravated assault and possession of a weapon for an unlawful purpose, police said. Arford was being held yesterday at the Monmouth County Jail on $10,000 bail.

Now, in my best NRA voice "We don't need new 'Gun Laws'. We just need to enforce the ones we have".

[Terriergal]

I did.

[Terriergal]

trying to figure out how your anecdotal story applies to this situation...

[Jeff Gordon]

If convicted of a felony, Arford could potentially lose the right to keep the weapons, police said.

He does not need to conviced of a felony to lose his right to keep his property. The local Getsapo just needs to get the Fire Department to take out a restraining order against Arford attempting to limit the FD's ability to fight fires.

[DAnconia55]

How about when they restrain a woman/man from running back into their own burning home to rescue a child/pet/whatever?

I guess that's violating constitutional rights too...

Yes, it is.

[Cultural Jihad]

...proud of the facism...

Noseism. Earism. Eyeism. Mouthism. Lipism. Cheekism, Browism ... All are important components of facism.

[RabidBartender]

"Go back and re-read that thread buddy. I was firmly on the side of those who thought he should be prosecuted for murder. My only questions revolved around the lack of details that jived together in the media reporting of the incident. Also, since we DIDN'T have all the info, that it was pre-mature to hang the man without a trial of all the facts."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/732303/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/730882/posts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/731143/posts

You are correct in that you did condemn the action. You were one of the few prominent 'anti-authority' types to do so (the preceding is not meant as an insult). However, the same people who are quick to question the media when it appears the police are innocent are often the first to swear by the same media when it is reported the police have screwed up. An interesting double standard.

If I recall correctly, you were all for lynching him. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Nope. I went back and looked over the threads - I was lamenting the agreement some had with the murderer, but I still believe in due process. I was actually learning a thing or two on constitutional issues, before a known flamer came on and started throwing insults at everyone.

[Poser]

"Robert Frank, a volunteer firefighter and off-duty police officer from Little Silver, grabbed Arford and the rifle before he could raise the weapon, McGovern said. "

Hmm... If I had my tinfoil hat on I would suspect that the guy didn't point the gun at anybody and the off-duty cop arrested him without provocation. I don't think there is a rule against grabbing an unloaded weapon in your own house and *not* pointing it at anybody.

[DAnconia55]

Here's the relevant part, to make it easier to understand.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons..... against unreasonable .....seizures shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing ....the persons ....to be seized.

No warrant? Then no officer of law may touch you, move you, arrest you, or remove you from your property.

[tpaine]

So is your brand of cultism, CJ.

[DAnconia55]

Only if you show me anything that indicates the Fire Chief is searching and/or seizing anything, whether reasonable or unreasonable

By removing him from his property against his will, you have seized his person.

Reread it.

[wimpycat]

The relevant part, ONCE AGAIN, in case you missed it before, is "UNREASONABLE".

[Catspaw]

If the fire had reached any walls or ceiling, this guy would have had a really big problem. That is probably not the case, however.

The problem is, of course, that the firefighters don't know that when responding to a chimney fire unless they're blessed with a certain amount of clairvoyance and x-ray vision. They have to check to see if the fire has gotten into the walls or into the roof area. As my firefighting kid said, it's made much easier to find out if there's a fire within the walls with thermal imaging, but it still has to be checked to make sure the fire is really out. If they had left and if the fire was in the walls or roof & it broke out, he'd probably sue them because they were derelict in their duty.

And a smoke alone can be dangerous if he'd had a heart or respiratory ailment. The panic alone probably shot his blood pressure up to astromonical levels. As from someone who has had smoke inhalation, it's not fun.

[Politically Correct]

they would become thousands of firecrackers. You need the barrel to contain and channel the explosion to make bullets.

Now, now, you'd a had all that brass bouncing off the walls........coulda put someones eye out";^)

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Even worse. That endangers the lives of the firefighters unnecessarily.

[Terriergal]

Ya know...I don't believe that under duress people are quite able to sit and analyze whether their efforts to save a life are or are not constitutional. Amazing you would criticize their attempt at saving a person's life in that way. Apparently suicide should also not be against the law and no one should step in, should someone decide to off themselves. Heck why don't we go all the way and support doctor assisted suicide. It makes sense.

If you believe it to be unconstitutional to restrain someone from plunging headlong into a burning building, you had better start working on a form of "miranda law" for fire departments.

[Poser]

""The ammo could have exploded and shot all over," McGovern said. "If it got hot enough and the gunpowder ignited, the rounds would have become projectiles shooting out of the home." "

This is baloney. A cartridge that isn't in a barrel is a soft case with a heavy bullet. The bullet won't move much. The case will rupture and go pop or the bullet will slide out of the cartridge and the gas pressure will escape in all directions, leaving the bullet nearby.

Without a barrel to hold the gas pressure and accelerate the bullet, the bullet can't gain much velocity.