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1 posted on 11/29/2002 11:31:28 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks
When a segment of society decides that nothing is their fault, but somebody elses, then that becomes a crutch to NOT succeed. They will use that scapegoat for all their woes, all their deficiencies, all their inequalities.
That segment of society will always stay where they are because they refuse to overcome their problems, choosing to stay where they are and blame others for their problems. That's not a personal attack, it is not racism, it is the facts.
3 posted on 11/29/2002 11:40:35 PM PST by webber
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To: kattracks
Not mentioned at all in this article, but a huge factor nonetheless: The extraordinarily high percentage of blacks born out of wedlock and raised without the father in the home. The rate is much, much higher than among whites or Asians.
8 posted on 11/29/2002 11:56:34 PM PST by Charles Henrickson
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To: kattracks
An anthropologist from Berkeley. That's an oxymoron.

True anthropological studies have been censored for a few decades now. But with the advent of human genome research, which is being done for real in other parts of the world, I think we will soon have answers to lots of questions. People need to realize though that it's okey for us all to be different. All groups of people have strong points and weak points. This is a very sensitive subject though and most people with sense will not touch it with a ten foot pole.

11 posted on 11/30/2002 12:23:39 AM PST by DBtoo
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To: kattracks
Just a concrete example: Compare the liberal's treatment of Clarence Thomas and Jesse Jackson.
14 posted on 11/30/2002 1:55:39 AM PST by TennesseeProfessor
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To: kattracks
Too many reasons to list. Besides, too few care.
15 posted on 11/30/2002 2:21:58 AM PST by Cobra64
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To: kattracks
Learning requires self-discipline. Have you ever visited a supermarket or a shopping mall and observed the difference in behavior between young blacks and whites? Rap culture to a large extent dismisses self-discipline and whether this dissing of self-discipline is gained from outside sources or from the parents themselves, the result is the same: lack of self-discipline = failure at school.
20 posted on 11/30/2002 4:18:39 AM PST by monocle
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To: kattracks
"She noted that while Professor Ogbu called most of the black families in the district middle class, 10 to 12 percent live in poverty." (New York Times)

That only means that 88-90% of black kids in the Shaker Heights school system are from middle-class or even rich families!

It's time - especially in rather-affluent suburbs like Shaker Heights - to put liberal ideology aside and admit that poverty doesn't explain why so many black kids do so poorly in even schools in affluent liberal suburbs like Shaker Heights.

Shaker Heights does have a "changing neighborhood" problem on its west end and on its south side - but of economic status, not of race; these areas are sliding from middle-class mixed-race to poor mixed-race. But there just aren't enough black kids in poverty in that suburb to explain the reality by poverty.

21 posted on 11/30/2002 4:19:40 AM PST by glc1173@aol.com
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To: kattracks
"I believe, based on my own research, that the center of gravity lies with the school system," she said.

Of course. Blame someone or something else. That's the time tested approach we've all come to know and love.

23 posted on 11/30/2002 4:23:20 AM PST by ItisaReligionofPeace
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To: kattracks
She noted that while Professor Ogbu called most of the black families in the district middle class, 10 to 12 percent live in poverty.

The old poverty causes poor academic performance ruse. I wonder how many white people are live in poverty in this area. I'll bet it's a similar percentage of the population.

My personal opinion in this matter is that all to often black students expect to be given decent grades because they exist and show up. This is a attitude society has been reinforcing for thirty years and it is the nature of man to take the easy academic path, so when it's available many do just that. There is no need, hence no desire to acheive for far too many students in general.

26 posted on 11/30/2002 4:27:56 AM PST by Fzob
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To: rdb3; Khepera; elwoodp; MAKnight; condolinda; mafree; Trueblackman; FRlurker; Teacher317; ...
Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

28 posted on 11/30/2002 4:37:58 AM PST by mhking
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To: kattracks
Reason: The left wants to keep them dumb,dependant and Democratic
34 posted on 11/30/2002 5:25:31 AM PST by RocketJsqurl
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To: kattracks
Mr. Ferguson speculated that what Professor Ogbu saw was a clumsy attempt by black students to search for a comfortable racial identity. "What does it mean to be black?" he said. "What does it mean to be white? The community needs to help kids make sense of their own identity."

Perhaps some kind Freeper can help me understand this thinking. As I kid I never thought what does it mean to be white. Why would I? I was a poor white kid living on welfare that never thought for an instant my skin color had anything to do with who or what I am or what is my potential. Nor have I ever thought I needed to act white. What ever that means

Why would a black kid wonder what it means to be black? Who thinks up this nonsense? What value is there is framing your world in this way? Why is there a need to deconstruct your identity in terms of skin color?

38 posted on 11/30/2002 5:56:00 AM PST by Fzob
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To: kattracks
"...a book that argues minority communities themselves contribute to student failure."

Gee.........ya think??

I defy anyone to closely examine today's black culture and point out one aspect of it.......just one........that suggests a desire to excel, improve, educate, edify, or prosper beyond thuggism or pro sports (I know I know....little difference there any more).

Martin Luther King must be spinning in his grave.

44 posted on 11/30/2002 6:03:31 AM PST by RightOnline
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To: kattracks
Black or white or neither, when you are born into a family that does not value education, to a family that hasn't a notion of the "future" and what it takes to sacrifice "now" for that "future," education just isn't going to be a priority. When you come from a family that doesn't appreciate/know/understand/teach that certain behaviors are part of success and certain behaviors keep you down, you're not likely to succeed at anything.
46 posted on 11/30/2002 6:20:37 AM PST by Clara Lou
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To: kattracks
This only matters to those who would base society on groups rather than individual rights.
55 posted on 11/30/2002 6:40:58 AM PST by laredo44
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To: kattracks
Why Are Black Students Lagging?

Because they can? Seriously, when the system rewards failure, look for people, seeking reward, to fail. To me, its that simple.

59 posted on 11/30/2002 7:03:06 AM PST by meyer
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To: kattracks
Why Are Black Students Lagging?

Probably for the same reason whites lag behind blacks in foot races and other sports. - Tom

63 posted on 11/30/2002 7:19:12 AM PST by Capt. Tom
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To: kattracks
Sociology= The painstaking pursuit of the obvious.
64 posted on 11/30/2002 7:20:07 AM PST by Crawdad
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To: kattracks
Mr. Ferguson doesn't make sense. Low achievers / Minorities are "[just as] interested in school" argues Mr. Ferguson, but they also automatically assume / 'suspect' that the "high achievers believe they are superior." Does Mr. Ferguson bring up anything that shows that high achieving minority students talk "too properly" in informal settings? Does he bring up anything to show that high achieving minority students hang around with white friends more than their black friends?

The answer to all those questions is no. Has this Mr. Ferguson checked to see that these high achieving black kids that supposedly only hang around white friends are not doing so because they've been rejected by their black friends for their high achieving ways? Hell, there are probably teachers who don't hand out graded test papers in class precisely because to do so would make their star pupils' lives a living hell.

Sure ... the white kids call white star pupils "nerds" and "geeks". The black kids call black star pupils "Uncle Toms" and call them "wannabe whites". [sarcasm] This works out pretty much even, right? Black and white nerds suffer equally, right? [/sarcasm] Why won't black kids do it when they see "heroes" like Jesse Jackson, John Conyers, Harry Belafonte, etc. slam Condi Rice, Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, etc for their success?

Ferguson actually managed to talk himself into a circular argument. If the automatic assumption amongst low achieving minority students is that anyone who is a good student thinks himself superior to them, then it's quite obvious that they would reject him for this crime. The good student soon realizes that the only to fit in (which is incredibly important to school kids) is to not be a good student anymore. Everyone stays in the gutter of low achievement because anyone who tries to pull himself up gets punished by the group.

In the end, this Ferguson guy is simply clutching at straws. If one is interested in school, then it shows in the quality of one's work. This study that Ferguson ran probably just asked the black and Latino students if they "worked hard" and they answerred "yes" as much as white and Asian students did. But then it didn't investigate what "working hard" meant for both groups. It simply reported, and did not observe.

I mean, how is it possible that Ferguson can say that black and Latino students are definitely just as interested in school and work just as hard as whites and Asians ... and then acknowledge that black and Latino students lag behind in "things" like Homework Completion??? If you were interested in school, you would damn well do your homework. It's one of the best ways of measuring one's interest in school.

Ferguson is obviously a Leftie; he actually has the answers in front of him, he's just not gonna let himself admit it because it goes against the victim ideology. All his "identity" bullshit also pisses me off. It's obvious that whatever meaning these black students have come up with regarding being black, it doesn't involve getting As. Why do we need to actually have some meaning of what it is to be black? Isn't that seriously limiting?

68 posted on 11/30/2002 7:57:16 AM PST by MAKnight
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To: Clemenza; rmlew; PARodrig
ping
69 posted on 11/30/2002 8:00:47 AM PST by Cacique
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