Conservatives Dispute Bush Portrayal of Islam as Peaceful

washington post ^ | 11/30/02

[knak]

President Bush finds himself in a rare disagreement with conservatives in his party over his efforts to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that is not responsible for anti-American terrorism.

In a score of speeches since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the president has called for tolerance of Muslims, describing Islam as "a faith based upon peace and love and compassion" and a religion committed to "morality and learning and tolerance."

[rambo316]

I agree with your points on this but you might be called Conspiratorial for posting it on FR.

[Jhoffa_]

PSS:

There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin. I guess I will start here:

Furthermore, you need to stop letting men define "worth" to you.

You know, it's easy to be critical when you write the dictionary.

[Jarhead_22]

I guess it could be said more simply if you looked at Osama and the terrorists as using Islam to attach themselves to thousands of "potential warriors" the world over.

Please explain to me what bin Laden's goal is if it's not to spread Islam and establish Islamic caliphates wherever he can cause enough terror. If Islam is just a ruse and a binding agent for him, what's his real purpose for killing thousands and making himself Public Enemy Number One?

If bin Laden were the only threat, your theory might be more believable. With the exception of Turkey, everyplace in the world with a Muslim majority is a snakepit of oppression. Some might say that your friend Lamonte is not practicing Islam the way the Prophet intended, is therefore an apostate, and us subject to execution.

Islam is inherently incompatible with a constitutional republic.

[Jhoffa_]

I never said it was a ruse, I said it was a binder.

It's something he needs to accomplish his goal.

Osama needs help, and he needs the kind of help men don't ordinarily offer.

He needs Islam to bind others, who might normally be unconcerned to this cause.

[Jarhead_22]

It's something he needs to accomplish his goal.

His goal is to spread Islam by the sword, as directed by the Koran. If others are "unconcerned to this cause," Islam has never in its past had a problem compelling others to toe their line.

The problem confronting your friend Lamonte and my old next door neighbor Mr. Ali is that they're in the decided minority as far as the Islamic vox populi goes. Of course, this assumes that your friend Lamonte has ever made any statements exoriating the Muslim terrorists and their mass murders of innocents worldwide.

[Jhoffa_]

Of course, this assumes that your friend Lamonte has ever made any statements exoriating the Muslim terrorists and their mass murders of innocents worldwide.

No Way, you could hit Lamonte with a car and he would probably apologize..

But Osama would love to scare Lamonte with the prospect of never going to heaven.

He would love to use Islam as a binder to pull people to him and his cause. People who normally wouldn't give him the time of day. Just scare them silly, push all their buttons and line them up as warriors for the army of Islam.

[Jhoffa_]

Of course, this assumes that your friend Lamonte has ever made any statements exoriating the Muslim terrorists and their mass murders of innocents worldwide.

No Way, you could hit Lamonte with a car and he would probably apologize..

But Osama would love to scare Lamonte with the prospect of never going to heaven.

He would love to use Islam as a binder to pull people to him and his cause. People who normally wouldn't give him the time of day. Just scare them silly, push all their buttons and line them up as warriors for the army of Islam.

[Jarhead_22]

He would love to use Islam as a binder to pull people to him and his cause.

You're not reading what I'm posting apparently. Islam is the cause. Lamonte might be the one diverging from Islam, not bin Laden. From a quick overview of current world conflicts, regular and irregular, I tend to believe that that's the case.

[goldstategop]

Yes we do think the President is wrong. Islam means "submission" in Arabic, not "peace." Unless the President is an expert on the meaning of the Koran, he shouldn't claim better than Muslims to know what Islam means. To them it means bringing the world under the yoke of their faith, even unto the sword to do it. A far cry from a Religion Of Peace.

[GeekDejure]

Big letters do not necessarily mean you have won the argument.

I am not arguing !!! I have merely stated some facts and asked two relevant questions !!!

[Miss Marple]

Much better. See, you don't have to shout to get your point across.

Now, I will ask you this question: if we declare an all-out war on Islam, what do you think will happen with our allies in Qatar, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey, and Indonesia. Do you think they will continues to assist us and let us use the bases in their countries? Do you think they will still give us intelligence?

This is a practical question.

Another question is this: if we declare war on all Islam, what is your proposed solution for the millions of legal Islamic residents and citizens here in the United States? How many police do you think it will take to protect Islamic communities from vigilantes? How many fence-sitters in those communities would be pushed into sabotage and aiding sleeper cells?

There are practical considerations involved in this, and I would like to hear some thoughtful comments on what the proposed answer is. Hint: nuking Mecca is not a viable answer.

[American in Israel]

Like I said, I just read a little bit, but it was plain spoken and explicit: No compulsory religion.

Yes, you are given the choice between Islam or death. It is a religion of Choice! (You need to read a bit more, the Koran is very self-contradicting)

[Dajjal]

HAPPY RAMADAN!!!

[American in Israel]

Now, I will ask you this question: if we declare an all-out war on Islam, what do you think will happen with our allies in Qatar, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey, and Indonesia.

In case you have not noticed, Islam has declared war on you. It makes what we say about it rather moot. Our "allies" in Kuwait have no Americans allowed signs outside some of their business establishments. Turkey and Jordan are not Moslem States, and Indonesia is the site of the Bali Bombing. While you appease, Islam is on the move.

They came for the Sudanese, but we said nothing because they were black? They came for the Israeli’s and we said nothing because they were Jews, they came for the Balinese and we said nothing because they were, uh, Balinese. They came for us and we said nothing because we were to politically correct? But hey, at least the Sand-Nazi’s religious rights to murder were protected from hate speech!

I think a bit of eye opening is over due on both your and Bush's part.

Your question was "will they give us intelligence?" My answer in return is a question, "will it be worth anything IF they give it to us"? As I think they are allies at gunpoint at best, not friends.

Your second question is equally as backasswards in my opinion. "if we declare war on all Islam, what is your proposed solution for the millions of legal Islamic residents and citizens here in the United States? How many police do you think it will take to protect Islamic communities from vigilantes?"

About one thousandths of the amount of police that it will take to protect Americans from the Islamic Jihad Army that is within our borders. I am not worried about a drunk redneck with a deer rifle, I am worried about a quarter million religious fanatics with C4 blowing up shopping malls and city busses as they are prone to in Israel. If you are indeed a "Miss" Marple, you have more to worry about than I do as you are a woman, a much more likely target than a man.

So given that the Koran and the supplementary teachings of the Imams say that a man who attacks his neighboring village and brings the wrath of the infidel on a Moslem village is a shame, where a man who attacks a neighboring village and brings tribute from a stronger village is a wise man, I submit to you that Nuking Mecca may indeed be the only answer.

I not only advocate nuking Mecca, but skywriting in the clouds over Saudi Arabia "Our God is bigger than your God" with the F16's when we leave. You may think that as childish, but I have lived with our "sand cousins" for about three years now. If you want to speak to your enemy, speak his language. Trust me, I am deadly serious.

[American in Israel]

Big or small, they will not understand until it is their throat, not their neighbors under the knife for Islam. 3000 Americans killed, and Miss Marple is worrying that some Islamic, somewhere might be insulted by a redneck. One would think that Miss Marple is Islamic, not an American hmmmm?

[Mamzelle]

re:I don't pretend to be a biblical scholar, but excerpted passages that I have seen from the Koran did explicitly state that religion should not be compulsory. )))

From my own studies, I have observed that Mohammad had two faces--the early Mecca Mo who had no power and no army, who called for peace. The later Medina Mo was lopping off heads of Jews by the hundreds and running off with their women. He had an army and power.

It is a tenet of Shariya law that when you find contradictions in the Koran, you obey the latest edict.

"War is deception"----Mohammed

[American in Israel]

Gee, I thought you were dead Jimmy! You certainly have a death wish...

[Miss Marple]

No, Miss Marple is not worrying about some redneck insulting a Moslem. Miss Marple is worried about thousands of Muslims in the inner-cities rising up and torching the cities. Miss Marple is worried about Turkey's secular government turning on us and denying us access, causing trouble with NATO, and having yet another armed Muslim society as our enemy.

You see, I don't care much about hurt feelings. If I did, I wouldn't bother answering you and those like you, who assume that I am a clueless twit who is overly concerned about PC.

You know, I don't hear Benjamin Netenyahu or Ariel Sharon advocating a war on all of Islam. Why do you suppose that is? Could it be that perhaps they have a practical reason? Like perhaps there are ONE BILLION Muslims in the world, and a fair share of them are on three sides of Israel? Could it be perhaps that they count on Jordan, an ISLAMIC country, to at least provide a buffer between them and Iraq?

One thing I do agree with you about: your comments about nuking Mecca and writing in the sky do indeed sound childish.

[Luis Gonzalez]

I guess if you see Christians as being Christians and calling for people's heads, that would be OK.

I'll look harder for the chapter on the Bible where Christ urged Jews to avenge his death.

[Luis Gonzalez]

So then, why do countries with Muslim governments have other religions practiced there?