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To: crystalk; thatdewd; Restorer; nicmarlo
No man COMETH TO the Father, but by Me. Jews are ALREADY WITH the Father.

Neither Jesus nor the Apostle John seems to think that unbelieving Jews are with the Father:

"I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins. . . . I speak of what I have seen with my Father, and you do what you have heard from your father. . . . If God were your Father, you would love me. . . . You are of your father the devil. . . . It is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say, 'He is our God.' But you have not known him." (Jesus, in John 8:24, 38, 42, 44, 54-55)

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? . . . No one who denies the Son has the Father. . . . every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. . . . Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." (1 John 2:22, 23; 4:3; 5:12)

218 posted on 11/28/2002 11:11:15 PM PST by Charles Henrickson
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To: Charles Henrickson
I seem to recall crossing your path awhile ago. : )
222 posted on 11/28/2002 11:31:50 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Charles Henrickson
There may have been particular apikorsim, Jews who had lost their faith, that Jesus was warning in such harsh terms, but he could hardly have been addressing the entirety of his own people in this way.

One man he called "an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no guile."

On another occasion, explaining some of the more esoteric ideas he held, he marveled that "you are an elder in Israel, and do NOT know these things...??"

248 posted on 11/29/2002 6:37:12 AM PST by crystalk
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To: Charles Henrickson; crystalk
(Jesus, in John 8:24, 38, 42, 44, 54-55)

He is specifically speaking to Jews that were false in their worship of The Almighty ("But you have not known him.") He is not speaking to or about ALL Jews. Just hypocrites and false believers. He repeatedly specifies that.

(1 John 2:22, 23; 4:3; 5:12)

These statements do not apply to Jewish followers. These statements, All of them, are specifically directed to that one group of non-Jewish Christian 'proselytes'. John mentions that false teachers and their followers had left their group. It was very common for differing 'christian' belief systems to originate and circulate amongst the Christian proselytes at that time. He commends this group for sticking to his guidelines and in the process points out (by contrasts) the teachings that the others were embracing. These statements do not apply to Jewish followers. If you doubt this, just look in your New Testament in the book of Acts. Remember the first council, the Council of Jerusalem? All of the Apostles who had known Jesus and had been taught by him still worshipped as Jews. It was decided at that council that the non-Jewish pagans could be Christian 'proselytes' and not be subject to fully becoming Jews. Different rules were derived for them, similar to the 'Noahite' commandments obeyed by gentiles who did not want to fully commit to Judaism (by obeying the seven commandments given to Noah, non-Jews could obtain divine approval without fully becoming Jews). Those former pagan Christian 'proselytes' are who John is addressing in that letter. His words do not apply to Jews.

Yeshu, or Jesus, also said (Matthew 23:2) "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe...", and then followed with an admonition to not be hypocrites and false believers like the power elite he constantly chastised. If he meant ALL scribes and Pharisees, he would not tell his followers to obey them and recognize their authority. He told his followers to be GOOD Jews. He also said (Matthew 5:18) "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished". In case you haven't noticed, heaven and earth have not passed away, and all is not accomplished.

335 posted on 11/29/2002 2:29:33 PM PST by thatdewd
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