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To: PhilipFreneau
Why is this term in the Constitution: "in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-seven"?

So where the date is given overrides the First Amendment? Somehow presenting the date in that fashion establishes that the First Amendment only protects Christianity and Judaism (nevermind that the Jewish calendar does not acknowledge that date)?

The words of Washington are great if you want to established the believed opinions of George Washington, however he was not the only author of the US Constitution. Given that early drafts of the First Amendment that specifically protected Christianity were rejected over wording that covers the much more general "religion" instead, I'm still not convinced that it was intended only to cover one specific type of religious belief.
183 posted on 11/28/2002 10:22:22 PM PST by Dimensio
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To: Dimensio
I'm still not convinced that it was intended only to covr one specific type of religious belief.

Nor am I. OTOH, religions that condone violence, murders, etc., cannot be protected, as those behaviors are more than just wrong. There is a standard by which citizens must live. Just as it is wrong to falsely claim "fire" in a theater, calls to take up arms and murder nonbelievers of a particular belief (i.e., Islam) cannot be allowed that type of "freedom."

187 posted on 11/28/2002 10:28:11 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: Dimensio
It always amazes me to find people using the Founders to justify intolerance of other religions, when this nation was settled by people seeking to escape religious intolerance.
189 posted on 11/28/2002 10:31:36 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Dimensio
The words of Washington are great if you want to established the believed opinions of George Washington, however he was not the only author of the US Constitution. Given that early drafts of the First Amendment that specifically protected Christianity were rejected over wording that covers the much more general "religion" instead, I'm still not convinced that it was intended only to cover one specific type of religious belief.

For what it is worth, Washington presided over the Constitutional Convention. And the only concerns I have read in historical documents about the establishment of religion were those regarding possible in-fighting between Christian denominations. They were adamant that a "national church", such as the Anglican Church of England, should not have power in America. Therefore, the "general" religion you spake of was Christian in nature, but non-denominational."

For example, the House Journal for Friday, April, 17, 1789, reads: "That two Chaplains, of different denominations, be appointed to Congress for the present session; the Senate to appoint one, and give notice thereof to the House of Representatives, who shall thereupon appoint the other; which Chaplains shall commence their services in the Houses that appoint them, but shall interchange weekly."

Neither did the early congress have trouble passing resolutions to seek guidance from God. In the Journal of the House of Representatives of the United States, Friday, September 25, 1789, it is written: Resolved, That a Joint Committee of both Houses be directed to wait upon the President of the United States, to request that he would recommend to the People of the United States, a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed, by acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the many signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a Constitution of Government for their safety and happiness.

A similar reading can be found in the Journal of the Senate of the United States of America, Monday, September 28, 1789.

Of course, the President in question was George Washington, who honored the Lord in his Thanksgiving Day Proclamation, but the speech was non-denominational.

And in the Senate on April 27th, 1789, there was this: "Resolved, That, after the oath shall have been administered to the President, he, attended by the Vice President, and the members of the Senate and House of Representatives, proceed to St. Paul's Chapel, to hear divine service, to be performed by the Chaplain of Congress, already appointed; whereupon, Resolved, That this House doth concur in the said resolution, amended to read as followeth, to wit: That, after the oath shall have been administered to the President, the Vice President, and members of the Senate, the Speaker and members of the House of Representatives, will accompany him to St. Paul's Chapel, to hear divine service performed by the Chaplain of Congress."

That does not sound like "Separation of Church and State" to me.

Now, there is this from John Jay: "With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people--a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence. This country and this people seem to have been made for each other, and it appears as if it was the design of Providence, that an inheritance so proper and convenient for a band of brethren, united to each other by the strongest ties, should never be split into a number of unsocial, jealous, and alien sovereignties."

Finally, I refer to the 1st Amendment, which begins, "[The] Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." That clearly means that religion is within the sphere of the states and the people, as per the 10th Amendment. Jefferson, who has the infamous reputation of being the author of the mis-interpreted "Separation of Church and State" clause used by the anti-religion faction in the U.S., interpreted the 1st Amendment differently from that faction. Jefferson wrote, "I consider the government of the U S. as interdicted by the Constitution from intermeddling with religious institutions, their doctrines, discipline, or exercises. This results not only from the provision that no law shall be made respecting the establishment, or free exercise, of religion, but from that also which reserves to the states the powers not delegated to the U.S." (from a letter to the Rev. Samuel Miller, Jan. 23, 1808). Jefferson's interpretaion was the case until the federal government usurped that power from the states several decades ago.

230 posted on 11/29/2002 12:48:59 AM PST by PhilipFreneau
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