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To: WhiskeyPapa
Thanks for your reply, Walt.

What the slave owners took issue with was that the nothern states were becoming less and less willing to support slavery.

Why do you suppose that was?

The South Carolina Declaration of Causes even says that northerners labored under a false religious belief that slavey was wrong.

Slavery existed under the U.S. flag; it was U.S. citizens who were becoming increasingly uncomfortable with it ---except in the slave states.

But you haven't answered a direct question. Since you admit that the U.S. Flag flew over northern states that condoned slavery, why do you not wish to have the Stars & Stripes changed or replaced?

I'll add another question. Why do you fear the Stars & Bars so?

And another: Is the South advocating a return to slavery?

One more for good measure: During the days of slavery, the slave owners provided free housing, free food, free medical care (such as it was for anyone, free or slave in those days). How does that differ from todays medicare, food stamps, or 'free housing'?

162 posted on 11/27/2002 6:26:45 AM PST by Budge
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To: Budge
But you haven't answered a direct question. Since you admit that the U.S. Flag flew over northern states that condoned slavery, why do you not wish to have the Stars & Stripes changed or replaced?

It's always folly to put modern day judgements on historical people. That what this, "but the US flag flew over slavery for 75 years" or whatever it was shows.

But I can condemn the slave power because they were condemned at the time. The Czar even freed the serfs. Slavery was being irradicated and phased out everywhere in the world (although it continued in Argintina until after the ACW) --EXCEPT in the slave states. The slave power fought tooth and nail to keep it. I can condemn the slave power because they were condemned at the time.

I tell you again -- the slavers in South Carolina said that the idea that slavery was wrong was based on a --false--religious-- idea. That is grotesque.

The people today, who honor the slavers, I also condemn.

Now, it is also as plain as can be that the vast majority of whites in the south were --vehemently-- opposed to negro equality. So all these SCV and UDC people cannot weasel out of it. The confederate battle emblem should be irradicated generally, and it certainly has no place on public buildings.

The freedom to fly the CBF is guaranteed by the constitution the slave power, and its willing helpers, the non-slave owning whites sought to destroy.

Consider this text:

"... a North Carolina mountaineer wrote to governor Zebulon Vance a letter that expressed the non-slave holder's view perfectly Believing that some able-bodied men ought to stay at home to preserve order, this man set forth his feelings: "We have but little interest in the value of slaves, but there is one matter in this connection about which we have a very deep interest. We are opposed to Negro equality. To prevent this we are willing to spare the last man, down to the point where women and children begin to suffer for food and clothing; when these begin to suffer and die, rather than see them equalized with an inferior race we will die with them. Everything, even life itself, stands pledged to to the cause; but that our greatest strength may be employed to the best advantage and the struggle prolonged let us not sacrifice at once the object for which we are fighting."

-- "The Coming Fury" p. 202-203 by Bruce Catton.

And consider this:

"Though I protest against the false and degrading standard to which Northern orators and statesmen have reduced the measure of patriotism, which is to be expected from a free and enlightened people, and in the name of the non-slaveholders of the South, fling back the insolent charge that they are only bound to their country by the consideration of its "loaves and fishes," and would be found derelict in honor and principle, and public virtue, in proportion as they were needy in circumstances, I think it but easy to show that the interest of the poorest non-slaveholder among us is to make common cause with, and die in the last trenches, in defence of the slave property of his more favored neighbor."

-- J.E.B. DeBow, 1860

DeBow was the taker of the 1850 census. That census showed that slave ownership devolved on 1/2 of the whites in LA, MS, and SC. Slave ownership in the other four deep south states devolved on 1/3 of the whites. Debow noted that there were more slave holders in the south than there were real property owners in the north.

People who venerate the CBF are either ignorant of the history or willfully malevolent.

Walt

163 posted on 11/27/2002 7:02:23 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: Budge
One more for good measure: During the days of slavery, the slave owners provided free housing, free food, free medical care (such as it was for anyone, free or slave in those days). How does that differ from todays medicare, food stamps, or 'free housing'?

Per the Georgia slave code of 1806 it was illegal in Georgia to teach a negro to read.

You better let this go. You are in way over your head.

Walt

164 posted on 11/27/2002 7:41:42 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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To: Budge
I'll add another question. Why do you fear the Stars & Bars so?

You are making an assumption. That is always dangerous. I could care less what people do with the CBF on their property. But I do know that the display of the CBF cannot fail to make the person displaying it appear either ignorant, malevolent, or both.

Walt

165 posted on 11/27/2002 7:45:59 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
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