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To: VOA
I guess I'm just a small-town naive virgin on this topic...I just don't get it.

Not at all! You and other "small-town" folk is what always distinguished this country in terms of civilized behavior. That's what many Europeans don't get and look at how high teh culture reaches. The French, for instance, measure their culture by the writers, artists, and philosophers it has produced.

But that is just one measure of a culture. Just as human spirit, a culture may (and should) be measured not only by how high it rises but also how low it falls when it debases itself. When you looked not to "high culture" but to small-town folk, this country has always stood out in terms of its civility. The most simple people, who have not even traveled to big cities and have not partaken of the sophistry, have been for the most part well-mannered and gracious. I am far from the first to say so so strongly. Most famously, this has been done by de Tocqueville (yes, Virginia, there are open-minded Frenchmen), to wit: "America is great becasue of the basic goodness of its people. And it will cease to be great if its people cease to be good."

You have my respect and, I believe, should be proud of your values. I am sorry to disagree on one minor point: the deterioration of civility is not limited to some parts of the country. It is widespread, although it well may be that the Midwesteners hold off longer.

Regards, TQ.

42 posted on 11/24/2002 9:32:57 AM PST by TopQuark
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To: TopQuark
I am sorry to disagree on one minor point: the deterioration of civility is not
limited to some parts of the country. It is widespread, although it well may be that
the Midwesteners hold off longer.


Not a problem...and I wasn't trying to "santify" "flyover country".

There was a football riot in Manhattan, Kansas maybe 10-15 years ago.
This was when the hometown Kansas State U. Wildcats beat the in-state rivals
Kansas University.
A friend in graduate school said that he'd never forget a girl screaming when she
saw her Volkswagen being turned over and set on fire...by "happy" KSU fans.

I guess I must have just imbibed too much morality at Sunday School or from some of the more
virtuous things in popular culture.

As I say (in a quip) when I'm occassionally tempted to take the quick, pragmatic and wrong
way out of situations...
"Some day I've got to find a lawyer who'll help me sue my parents for inculcating me
with this bothersone conscience."
47 posted on 11/24/2002 9:47:13 AM PST by VOA
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To: TopQuark
The French, for instance, measure their culture by the writers, artists, and philosophers it has produced.

Yeah, all Michel Foucault and Jaques Derrida do (in the case of the former, did) is waste paper better put to use for Lowrider and Wrestling magazines.

I'll put America against ANY so-called "civilized" nation anyday of the week.

157 posted on 11/24/2002 9:22:27 PM PST by Clemenza
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