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World's biggest telescope to prove Americans really walked on Moon (HOLD MY BEANIE ALERT)
The Sunday Telegraph ^ | November 24, 2002 | Robert Matthews

Posted on 11/23/2002 5:00:25 PM PST by MadIvan

Conspiracy theorists, you have a problem. In an effort to silence claims that the Apollo Moon landings were faked, European scientists are to use the world's newest and largest telescope to see whether remains of the spacecraft are still on the lunar surface.

For years, doubters have claimed that Nasa, the US space agency, spent billions of dollars faking the landings to convince the world that it had beaten the Soviet Union to the Moon. A host of supposed evidence has been put forward, ranging from the absence of stars on any photographs taken by the astronauts to the fact that the Stars and Stripes they planted seemed to flutter in a vacuum.

Earlier this month, Nasa tried to put an end to the controversy by commissioning a definitive account of the evidence for the landings. Days later, it dropped the idea after criticism that it was wasting money by taking on the lunatic fringe: naturally, this only boosted claims that the space agency was trying to hide something.

The row even boiled over into personal conflict in September when police in Beverly Hills were called in to investigate claims that Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin - the second man on the Moon - punched a conspiracy theorist who accused him of lying about the landings.

Now astronomers hope to kill off the conspiracy theory once and for all by using the Very Large Telescope (VLT) - by far the most powerful telescope in the world - to spot the Apollo lunar landers.

Operated by European astronomers in the Chilean Andes, the VLT consists of four mirrors 27ft across linked by optical fibres. It can see a single human hair at a distance of 10 miles.

Trained on the Moon, such astonishing resolution should enable it to see the base of one or more of the six lunar modules which Nasa insists landed on the Moon between 1969 and 1972. Any images of the modules would be the first not to have been taken from space by Nasa.

Dr Richard West, an astronomer at the VLT, confirmed that his team was aiming to achieve "a high-resolution image of one of the Apollo landing sites".

The first attempt to spot the spacecraft will be made using only one of the VLT's four telescope mirrors, which are fitted with special "adaptive optics" to cancel the distorting effect of the Earth's atmosphere. A trial run of the equipment this summer produced the sharpest image of the Moon taken from the Earth, showing details 400ft across from a distance of 238,000 miles.

The VLT team hopes to improve on this, with the aim of detecting clear evidence for the presence of the landers. The base of the lunar modules measured about 10ft across, but would cast a much longer shadow under ideal conditions.

Dr West said that the challenge pushed the optical abilities of one VLT mirror to its limits: if this attempt failed, the team planned to use the power of all four mirrors. "They would most probably be sufficiently sharp to show something at the sites," he said.

Dr West insisted, however, that the decision to examine the landing sites was not driven by the conspiracy theory. "We do not question the reality of the landings," he said. "It is more for instrument-testing purposes."

Supporters of the conspiracy theory welcomed the news that astronomers are to photograph the landing sites. Marcus Allen, UK publisher of Nexus magazine and a long-time advocate of the theory, said: "I would be the first to accept what they find as powerful evidence that something was placed on the Moon by man."

He added, however, that photographs of the lander would not prove that America put men on the Moon. "Getting to the Moon really isn't much of a problem - the Russians did that in 1959," said Mr Allen. "The big problem is getting people there."

According to Mr Allen, Nasa was forced to send robots to the Moon and faked the manned missions because radiation levels in space were lethal to humans. "We know that no lead shielding was carried on Apollo, so how were 27 astronauts able to survive a journey of several days to and from the Moon?"

Dr Duncan Steel, a space scientist at Salford University, said that the supposed radiation hazard is a myth spread by conspiracy theorists.

Dr Robert Massey, an astronomer at the Royal Greenwich Observatory, said that the conspiracy theorists are unlikely to be deterred by photographic evidence. "Even if the VLT does see something, I suspect it won't silence them. In science we can never totally prove anything - but we can prove things beyond reasonable doubt."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: apollo; beanie; conspiracy; moon; theories; tinfoil
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To: Miss Marple
That's the 1 ! I was having a brunette moment there for a second . I'm with you on the point you make about the conspiracy folks . I've never heard of such nonsense until that movie was released .

And to think these people are out there with us in society having kids & voting ...

41 posted on 11/23/2002 5:43:00 PM PST by Ben Bolt
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To: wcbtinman
What you saw "flapping" was the reaction of the flag to the thruster of the LEM when the astronauts returned to the command module. Even in the vacumm of space, there will be a reaction to a jet of gas from a rocket engine that is blown against an object like that flag. 38 posted on 11/23/2002 5:38 PM PST by wcbtinman

Well, add your "explantion" to all the others above (scroll above). Ha Ha , so may "explantions" to choose from. Too bad none of them are viable.

42 posted on 11/23/2002 5:43:26 PM PST by timestax
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Are you truly not aware that there is a stiff metal rod built into the top edge of all flags planted on the Moon to give them the appearance of being fully unfurled

Scroll above about the flapping of the flag.

43 posted on 11/23/2002 5:45:02 PM PST by timestax
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To: timestax

44 posted on 11/23/2002 5:46:14 PM PST by wimpycat
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To: Tennessee_Bob
Neal Armstrong

When Apollo Mission Astronaut Neil Armstrong first walked on the moon, he not only gave his famous "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" statement but followed it by several remarks, usual communication traffic between him, the other astronauts and Mission Control.

Just before he reentered the lander, however, he made the enigmatic remark "Good luck Mr. Gorsky."

Many people at NASA thought it was a casual remark concerning some rival Soviet Cosmonaut.

However, upon checking, there was no Gorsky in either the Russian or American space programs.

Over the years many people questioned Armstrong as to what the "Good luck, Mr. Gorsky" statement meant, but Armstrong always just smiled.

On July 5, 1995 in Tampa Bay, Florida, while answering questions following a speech, a reporter brought up the 26 year old question to Armstrong. This time he finally responded. Mr. Gorsky had finally died and so Neil Armstrong felt he could answer the question.

When he was a kid, he was playing baseball with a friend in the backyard. His friend hit a fly ball, which landed right in front of his neighbor's bedroom windows. His neighbors were Mr. & Mrs.Gorsky.

As he leaned down to pick up the ball, young Armstrong heard Mrs.Gorsky shouting at Mr.Gorsky. "Sex! You want sex?! You'll get sex when the kid next door walks on the moon!"

45 posted on 11/23/2002 5:46:53 PM PST by Lokibob
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To: MadIvan
Now astronomers hope to kill off the conspiracy theory once and for all by using the Very Large Telescope (VLT)

I'm waiting for the BFT.

46 posted on 11/23/2002 5:48:08 PM PST by The FRugitive
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To: Miss Marple
I will bet you any amount. I watched every second of the landing live. I was 20 years old and an avid space fan. It did NOT flap!!!

It did flap big time, just scroll up and see all the different and varied guesses called "explantions" being bantered about for that flag flapping like a flag in a hurricane!

47 posted on 11/23/2002 5:50:32 PM PST by timestax
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To: wimpycat
Is that a moonpot?
48 posted on 11/23/2002 5:53:01 PM PST by timestax
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To: deport
Deport,

Maybe the telescope can help Shelia Jack-lee to see the flag whether it is waving or not...... Or was that Mars she was looking for it on?

Moon? Mars?... to Queen Shelia, what's the difference?

49 posted on 11/23/2002 5:53:15 PM PST by plsvn
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To: MadIvan
I read a couple of years ago that this telescope array might be used for this purpose. That was before the recent NASA blow up over the book so NASA isn't in back of this. In fact, the guys who built this telescope were planning to do this more as a PR stunt to show off the capability of their telescope. With all the recent BS it's an even better idea, then on to the serious science.
50 posted on 11/23/2002 5:53:46 PM PST by Arkie2
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To: timestax
flag flapping like a flag in a hurricane!

You are crazy.

51 posted on 11/23/2002 5:54:16 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: muggs
I went to Barnes and Nobles, and Borders, and puclic libraries and asked for books with pictures of astronauts on the moon. There were NONE!! A LIFE book of the 20th Century did have a couple of pics, but that's all! What's up with that. One of the Greatest achievements of mankind, and NO pics.
Go try to find a book, I dare you!

39 posted on 11/23/2002 5:40 PM PST by timestax
[
52 posted on 11/23/2002 5:54:18 PM PST by timestax
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To: deport
I wonder if anything has changed for Mr. So since April of 2001 ;)

Like the fact that objects in space rotate for example . This guy has clearly played to many Pink Floyd albums , not to mention he probably got paid for the article .

53 posted on 11/23/2002 5:55:56 PM PST by Ben Bolt
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To: timestax
All three of the explanations are correct.

Therre was a rod or thin wire put in the flag to hold it horizontally. Therre was some movement of the flag as they were trying to insert the pole in the lunar soil. And as the lander left, the blast probably did cause some movement.

None of these explanations is mutually exclusive. There was no "flapping in the breeze" and the moon landing was not a hoax.

We used to have another poster who thought the whole thing was a fake. Unfortunately, he is no longer with us. I must say, you really need to go back and read your statements. What are you going to say when they take pictures from the VLT?

54 posted on 11/23/2002 5:56:41 PM PST by Miss Marple
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To: 11B3
Last year the Chinese said they were going to put a man on the moon within 10 years and their first goal was to prove we never went.
55 posted on 11/23/2002 5:57:02 PM PST by Arkie2
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To: timestax
So we can put you squarely in the camp that believes the flag in the photos is not on the moon?

Ever heard of Occam's Razor?
The simplest explanation is the most likely.

Is it simpler to suppose that there was some other force at work other than a breeze of air affecting the flag...or to suppose that NASA orchestrated a huge conspiracy of thousands of engineers and scientists, silenced every one of them for over 30 years and doctored thousands of photos to make it look as if a landing on the moon actually happened?

You should also do some research into the folks in Australia that manned the dish at the Parkes radiotelescope installation. They relayed television pictures of the moon walk, real time, to the rest of the world because Goldstone in California was unable to do the job at that time of day...aproximately 10:00 pm EST...1:00pm Aussie local time on July 21st. I don't think they had that dish pointed at the ground towards Houston, Texas to pick up those images. There was a movie made about it. I believe it was called "The Dish". Take the advice given you earlier. Chill.

56 posted on 11/23/2002 5:57:45 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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To: dorben; Miss Marple
As Miss Marple correctly noted the movie was "Capricorn One". But, the mission "faked" in that movie was to Mars, not the moon. Actually, it wasn't a bad movie.
57 posted on 11/23/2002 6:00:20 PM PST by DugwayDuke
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To: timestax
Oh, stop it - you're killing me!!!! You're hilarious!

Don't go too far to the west, you'll fall off the edge of the world.

58 posted on 11/23/2002 6:00:46 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob
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To: Miss Marple
I'm not saying the landing was faked, only that some of the "pics"were faked. And that flag was furling like a flag being hit by an F4 tornado!
59 posted on 11/23/2002 6:01:46 PM PST by timestax
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To: Lokibob
Oh...my...G-d. That is just too rich.
60 posted on 11/23/2002 6:01:50 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts
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