Bush to push for amnesty

Washington Times ^ | Saturday, November 23, 2002 | By Jerry Seper

[JohnHuang2]

The Bush administration wants to grant amnesty to hundreds of thousands of Mexican illegal aliens now in the United States, according to the new U.S. ambassador to Mexico.

Tony Garza, sworn in this week at the White House, told reporters in Mexico City that reaching an accord legalizing the status of Mexican immigrants

[txdoda]

The point of amnesty is to get them on the books and paying taxes. >>>>>>>>>>>>

For the second time in this thread.....How many FEDERAL
TAXES do you think an un-educated mexican with 4/5/6
dependants pays ??? Most will also then legally quailfy
for welfare/healthcare.

[txdoda]

Look up how well he did in the election after we've been supposedly overrun by Mexicans.>>>>>>

At the rate they're coming he might make it in four years.

[F16Fighter]

"What we need to do is allow them to work in those jobs as legal visitors to the US and to pay taxes that cover the social costs of their visit... Mexican labor not only helps our economy, it's essential."

True, no one can dispute the contribution of Mexicans to the American labor force, but let's focus on THE issue -- granting ANY illegal invaders citizenship will totally undermine the authority of the United States of America forevermore in the hearts and minds of any true American patriot.

[Dog Gone]

How much less construction would be going on if we weren't bring in this large amount of people every year?

I don't know that you have to bring in ANY new workers. We probably have enough now. My point went to what the current status of workers is now. The Arizona Builders Alliance admits that 10% of its workforce is illegal aliens. It's probably really somewhere in the range of 25-30%, maybe even more considering that over half of the construction workers in that state are hispanic.

Equivalent numbers for the other border states wouldn't be surprising, although I haven't looked them up.

[txdoda]

That story is typical Mexican government thinking: it's always what the US can do for them, never what can we do on our own?
They are setting themselves up to be dependent on us forever.>>>>>>>>>

Yes, as long as they can keep shipping their poor north,
they can use the little tax money collected in Mexico,
to fund things for mexico upper class.

[Dog Gone]

True, no one can dispute the contribution of Mexicans to the American labor force, but let's focus on THE issue -- granting ANY illegal invaders citizenship will totally undermine the authority of the United States of America forevermore in the hearts and minds of any true American patriot.

Absolutely. I am totally opposed to granting citizenship.

[Dog Gone]

I assure you that I don't knowingly patronize any business that relies upon illegal labor.

If you want to run an honest, blue-collar construction or food service business in Tucson, be prepared for job positions you just can't fill - even at $9 to $14 an hour.

That's according to local business owners, who say they're often put in the awkward position of obeying the the law and ignoring the bottom line, or hiring eager, hard-working illegal immigrants for less money.
"American businesses are addicted to mass immigration because it drives down wages and drives up profits," said David Ray, of the Federation of Americans for Immigration Reform.
"It's about immigrants seeking better opportunity here and businesses constantly seeking cheaper workers."
Striking some sort of balance between America's hunger for labor and Mexico's starvation for work is the long-term goal of talks between President Bush and Mexican President Vicente Fox.
The two leaders meet tomorrow in Washington, D.C., for an immigration summit.
A tight labor market and unenforced employer sanctions has resulted in the economy's growing reliance on undocumented workers, who make up an estimated one-sixth of Arizona's work force.
Business owners know thousands of willing hands are ready to swing a hammer or flip a burger for the federal minimum wage of $5.15.
The only problem: They are here illegally.
According to industry statistics, between 30 percent and 80 percent of job applicants can be turned away based solely on their immigration status.
Ricardo Cazares, owner of Alejandro's Tortilla Factory, plans to follow the immigration talks closely.
His business, one of the major tortilla suppliers for grocery stores and restaurants in southern Arizona, relies on immigrant labor, he said.
"People who are born here don't want to start at a restaurant doing dishwashing," he said. "I think a good 80 percent of people who work in restaurants don't have legal papers."

'People who are born here don't want to start at a restaurant doing dishwashing.'
- Ricardo Cazares, owner of Alejandro's Tortilla Factory, 5330 S. 12th Ave. (with his son Ricky, 10)Cazares said he checks applicants' documents and files the required I-90 form, but that's it.
He doesn't ask particulars about applicants' immigration status, saying such inquiry can verge on discrimination and lead to government investigation.
"I don't want to be immigration police," he said.
When it comes to employer sanctions, the immigration police isn't even the immigration police.
The Immigration and Naturalization Service stopped policing Arizona employers nearly two years ago.
Russell Ahr, special assistant to the Phoenix INS director, said the border is the main focus for enforcement efforts.
Ahr is quick to point out that politics got in the way of the implementation of employer sanctions in 1986, when the nation's first and only amnesty was passed for people living illegally in the United States.
"I think employer sanctions would have had a great effect if we had sufficient resources and the law was consistently applied," he said.
"I kind of chuckle when politicians say employer sanctions don't work. In my opinion, they haven't really been tried," Ahr said.
Even at its peak, the agency had just four or five agents devoted to investigating companies that hire illegal immigrants.
"How effective could anyone expect us to be?" Ahr asked.
Employers face a serious challenge with immigration documents and Social Security cards, said Rob LaMaster, president of the Arizona Restaurant Association.
"There's no guarantee that the documents aren't fake," LaMaster said. "But it's really not the responsibility of the business owner to ferret out fake documents."
Walter Soto doesn't waste any time with applicants to his construction business.
"That's the first question we ask people: 'Do you have a Social Security card?' " he said. "I'll say 50 percent of people who come and file an application in my office are not here legally."

Bertha Lopez is employed by owner Ricardo Cazares at Alejandro's Tortilla Factory. Cazares estimates that 80 percent of people who work in restaurants don't have legal papers.The situation can be frustrating for Soto, who has a dearth of qualified workers for positions ranging from laborer to foreman.
"We have a labor shortage, and we have 86 million people 60 miles south of us that want jobs," he said.
"I have individuals who come up from Mexico, who legally immigrate. They are punctual. They come to work every day; they don't miss a day. If they need a day off ... I know two weeks ahead of time.
"Sometimes I think natural born citizens are not as appreciative of having work," he said.
Soto doesn't always get the same courtesy from American workers or the skill level that he needs to fill certain positions.
And it's not about the money, he added. Soto's company pays workers $14 an hour, with management positions paying more than $40,000 a year, he said.
With the meeting between Bush and Fox, Soto sees an opportunity to fill a much needed labor gap.
Soto said he would consider supporting a guest-worker program if it offered workers protection, the possibility of gaining permanent residency and assurance that guest-workers will not slip from the payroll into the unemployment line.
The economic situation is simple, he said. He needs qualified people who are employable.
"Give me clay. Give me people who are willing to work - whether they are guest-workers or U.S. citizens," Soto said.
Matthew Kryjack, managing director of Loews Ventana Canyon Resort, said there are positions he just can't fill for landscapers, kitchen workers, bellmen, stewards, banquet personnel.
"I have at least 30 open positions in housekeeping, and I've had them for four months," he said.
The positions are not minimum wage, by any means, at $7 to $9 an hour - more than the average Mexican wage for a day's work.
The company runs a check on the Social Security cards applicants provide. He said 30 percent to 40 percent of applicants are turned away as a result.
"We have to turn them away when they're willing and capable to get the job done," Kryjack said.
"And then we see them working somewhere else in town because maybe someone else doesn't care" about immigration laws, he added.
Willing workers and work will always find each other.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

No doubt about it, Mexico wants open borders, with traffic going one way only... northward.

[Spiff]

Liberal, reconquista rag - The Tucson Citizen - is your source for this piece defending the hiring of illegal aliens.

However, this little nugget from your article made my blood pressure go up a bit:

The Immigration and Naturalization Service stopped policing Arizona employers nearly two years ago

[PuNcH]

Explain why our unemployment rate isn't higher. Tell us why we don't have one American out of work for every Mexican employed here.

You miss the point. Explain why new jobs are automatically assumed to be as good as the ones destroyed?

Also how is one law abiding business supposed to compete with another who does not follow the law?

[JackelopeBreeder]

Excellent design. I wonder if there's a way to make a rhino look wimpy?

[Dog Gone]

You miss the point. Explain why new jobs are automatically assumed to be as good as the ones destroyed?

Well, if you have some stories to tell about how Americans are taking lower-paying jobs than illegal aliens, I'd like to hear them. It might change my mind about the need for Mexican labor.

Please share them with us.

[u-89]

When legalized they may not being paying much if any federal income tax but sure will be paying S.S. tax and that was the point.

[wardaddy]

Good I'm happy for you Spiff.

[ApesForEvolution]

Yes, I share the good news as an evangelist for the Lord whenever and wherever I'm called.

Do you blame America for the WTC/Pentagon attacks and the 'jihad' waged against us?

[PuNcH]

Well, if you have some stories to tell about how Americans are taking lower-paying jobs than illegal aliens, I'd like to hear them. It might change my mind about the need for Mexican labor.

Why would you compare the jobs lost to the jobs the illegals are doing now? We are talking about the jobs and the payrate before they were depressed by illegals.

Just because law-abiding citizens moved on doesnt mean they found a job as good as what they lost.

[u-89]

How much less construction would be going on if we weren't bring in this large amount of people every year?
------------
I don't know that you have to bring in ANY new workers
-------------

What I was trying to say is that the building boom is in part a result of the mass immigration, not that we needed the extra labour. Old neighborhoods and even entire towns have changed ethnicity. The old occupants didn't all just die off, they moved, meaning new homes.