Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

AP | 11/22/02

[Davea]

Roswell Incident Had Victims, Program Says

By RICHARD BENKE | The Associated Press 11/22/2002

ALBUQUERQUE - While he told the world that a weather balloon went down in Roswell, an Army general had in his hand a memo telling Pentagon brass of a UFO crash with "victims," according to a new television documentary.

A computer analysis of that memo, held by Brig. Gen. Roger Ramey during a July 1947 press briefing, is the "smoking gun" of the Roswell Incident, researchers say in the documentary being broadcast today on the Sci-Fi Channel.

Using a digital photo scanner to enlarge and enhance words printed on the folded piece of paper Ramey held, and using another computer program to select the most likely words, researcher David Rudiak, who has a Ph.D. in physics from UC Berkeley, found two key phrases: "the victims of the wreck" and "in the 'disc' they will ship."

With the textual study plus University of New Mexico archaeological findings from one of three alleged UFO crash sites, science fiction seeks to close the gap with fact, producers say.

A photograph taken July 8, 1947, in Fort Worth, Texas, by James Bond Johnson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram shows Ramey clutching a communique to Washington, D.C., while he displays a deflated weather balloon just hours after other Army officers in Roswell had reported a UFO crash.

It was one of a series of inconsistent military reports about the incident, which has become part of American mythology.

"Unless national security is at stake, there is absolutely no reason to keep this information from the public," said Thomas Vitale, a Sci-Fi Channel vice president. "Whatever crashed at Roswell, let us know what the truth is."

The Air Force had responded to a 1994 call from the late U.S. Rep. Steve Schiff, R-N.M., by saying it had no information on the Roswell Incident. Schiff, an Air Force reserve judge advocate general's officer, then took his query to the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

In 1997, the Air Force acknowledged the weather balloon had been a false cover story, but a new story also was called into question. In a report written by Lt. William McAndrew, the Air Force suggested reports of alien bodies in the wreckage must have originated because of a crash-test program in which mannequins were dropped from balloons. The mannequins did not come close to matching 1947 descriptions of alien bodies, and the crash-test program was not introduced until 1953, Rudiak said.

Sci-Fi, guided by longtime Roswell UFO researchers Tom Carey and Don Schmitt, commissioned William Doleman, an archaeologist with UNM's Maxwell Museum of Anthropology, to excavate the alleged initial crash contact point on the ranch where the late Mack Brazel worked as foreman.

Doleman said he knows little about the Roswell Incident but agreed to excavate the site using purely scientific methods because it is "culturally significant" and because so much of what is circulated about the Roswell crash landing is based on hearsay. What was needed, Doleman said, was physical evidence.

"So this project is a very bold step by people who claim to know what happened and where it happened," Doleman said. "What makes it bold is they were willing to go out there and look for physical evidence."

Details of the excavation are being kept confidential until after today's premiere. But Doleman said he agrees "that obviously something happened in July 1947 in southeastern New Mexico." After his work there, though, he said, "I'm still uncertain" about UFOs and alien beings.

The documentary will introduce some witnesses who have not been heard from publicly before, attesting to the existence of alien bodies in the wreckage of the "flying disc," Carey said by phone from his home in Pennsylvania.

"This is where we loaded the bodies," he quotes one New Mexico witness, Robert Slusher, as saying. Slusher, among those appearing in the documentary, was part of a B-29 crew that he said loaded bodies up through the plane's bomb bay at the Roswell Army Airfield.

Three victims were supposedly recovered from the final crash site, and a team of archaeologists, coincidentally, were in the area doing research on ancient Indians at the time, Carey said. Among them was Curry Holden, an archaeologist from Texas Tech in Lubbock, whom Carey located in 1992.

"Curry Holden said he saw everything - the craft and the bodies," Carey said. Holden died a few months later.

Carey, an investigator for a private corporation, said he started looking into Roswell 12 years ago "as a hobby."

But it became more than that. And now, he said, he and Schmitt are in a race against time, as witnesses become scarcer.

©Santa Fe New Mexican 2002

[MHGinTN]

It's marketing, Quix. Spielbergs TAKEN is about to start on MOnday, so the build up is a marketing natural.

[Quix]

I suspect it is marketing.

I hope it's "only" marketing of Spielberg's movie.

But then, is even that . . . so . . .

innocent?

IF ET's are most races basically pretty evil or fairly wholesale in cahoots with evil, perhaps the movie does us a service.

But that could be TRUE all around and still end up rushing the world's populace into a ONE WORLD government out of fear. Seems like the enemy would mostly win on that one.

Even IF a chunk the ET's are essentially angels or in submission to Holy Spirit and the ONE WORLD FORCES via the movie etc. succeed in getting EVERY ET labeled evil, the enemy wins again.

On the other hand, it may be good for people to think long and hard about the evident fact that not all ET's are as cuddly as the first ET movie made them out to be.

Maybe all the buildup has had nothing to do with an empending stark, global, coercive, overwhelming REVELATION of THEIR ID4 POWERS in support of the coming ONE WORLD government. I hope it hasn't. It's more . . . ?probable? ?reasonable? that it's just a marketing buildup to feed more money to Speilberg. Isn't it? I hope so. I hope so.

[MHGinTN]

Quix, there are good angels and there are bad angels, according to scripture. Are there good ET's and bad ET's? What if there are bad angels and good ET's? or, God Angels and bad ET's? The Disclosure Project seeks to delve into the possibilities via first opening up the hidden facts regarding UFO's and ET visitations, starting with the axiom that both exist but are being kept secret from the world populations. I have no problem accepting that UFO's are real phenomena (having seen one myself, back in 1970), but I have yet to see someone make the credible case for the UFO's sighted being actual 'manned' craft, as opposed to robotic or android driven craft doing the work of some remote civilization that cannot overcome the spacetime gulf. I supposed that if someone shows how the spacetime gulf may be overridden, then I will be more accepting of intelligent (as opposed to directed) drivers aboard UFO's.

[Quix]

AM CURIOUS HOW MANY

of you are watching

Speilberg's TAKEN?

What are the speculations about how it's going to end up?

Have you seen anything that was new to you in terms of the sort of info the government might be seeding the public with--either disinformation or bits of the disclosure puzzle?

Any other thoughts triggered by it so far?

Any interesting questions triggered by it?

Blessings,

[Las Vegas Dave]

I watched 3/4 of show 1, 1/4 of show 3, and that's all.
(It reminds me of a soap opera!)

[Sam Cree]

Don't have cable, so can't watch "Taken," though I likely would have wanted to see it.

Clearly, Spielberg has an interest in ET's, as this is his 3rd project on them. But I doubt it is part of any larger effort, I'd say he is exploring the possibilities on his own, pretty much.

[Quix]

Dave,

Given the proclivities of the Billdo and Shrillery cheered on demodum audiances, I suspect soap opera is a given for marketing demographics these days. But some of it seems like a real dumb egregious stretch in this series.

On the other hand, given the purported incestuous ingrownness of the puppet masters behind the scenes, maybe it's more fitting than we'd like to think.

---

Just a Spielberg personal interesting thing? Wish I felt so. Maybe. Or maybe it's to make money.

But it seems to me it comes out amidst a markedly above average MASS of program stuff of similar ilk. Why? Why now?

Also, If this is just Spielberg's personal interest thing--then he's more than interested, he's obsessively interested. This is a virtual orgy of speculation, puzzle-piece timed release, government disinformation and/or whatever such.

So far, I haven't seen anything all that new. Whether there will be anything all that new before the end of the series remains to be seen.

I think the business of the hybrids having certain "powers" is interesting. Not sure how much of that is poetic license; how much puzzle cues and how much disinformation. I think it's mostly entertainment. An interesting, nice touch in spots. The little girl looks all set to be a major force.

The government types have certainly been painted as plenty evil. Sadly, given certain factions of the government a la Billdo, Shrillery et al, their evilness is too plausible. But these characters are almost black and white levels of black--broad stereotypic brush-strokes. Having the tall likeable gov researcher sexually involved with the daughter of the son of the real donkey orifice was . . . a stretch . . . and rather unnecessary, to my mind. Having the daughter murder her father . . . while plausible given Billdo and Shrillery values . . . was also a stretch, to me. But if it's mostly intertainment, anything goes.

I suppose if it's truly perceived to be a major global security issue, it could be construed that anything truly goes. I don't think it's a winning strategy to become the devil to fight the devil, however.

Tim Snodgrass evidently had a trip to Heaven at a youngish age. Evidently in a saucer sort of craft. He is evidently preparing a report on UFO's saying for now merely that not all are devils, not all are angels. Should be interesting.

Also interesting--his being convinced that the big meteor was destroyed by an angelic UFO supposedly sparing the globe of the predicted 9.0+ quake.

Stay tuned. Given what--2 more nights?, the ending 4 hours should be at least as "dramatic."

[Sam Cree]

I don't necessarily think ET's would be friendly. If they have been here for ages, it would be an indication that they are friendly, but if they have the ability to warp the dimension of time, then maybe they just got here, in spite of having appeared in the middle ages or earlier. Then their intentions could be anything.

[Quix]

Quix, there are good angels and there are bad angels, according to scripture. Are there good ET's and bad ET's? What if there are bad angels and good ET's? or, God Angels and bad ET's? The Disclosure Project seeks to delve into the possibilities via first opening up the hidden facts regarding UFO's and ET visitations, starting with the axiom that both exist but are being kept secret from the world populations. I have no problem accepting that UFO's are real phenomena (having seen one myself, back in 1970), but I have yet to see someone make the credible case for the UFO's sighted being actual 'manned' craft, as opposed to robotic or android driven craft doing the work of some remote civilization that cannot overcome the spacetime gulf. I supposed that if someone shows how the spacetime gulf may be overridden, then I will be more accepting of intelligent (as opposed to directed) drivers aboard UFO's.

My own sense is that there are good and bad ET's AND good and bad angels--the Bible being clear on the latter . . . bad angels now called demons.

Scripture talks about satan being CAST DOWN to the earth. Who knows how many galactic races he influenced after his rebellion against God and being cast down in an imprisoned way to earth.

My brother was insistent that we had our own fleets of UFO craft both that carried people and that went under computer control to any spot on the globe INSTANTLY--as in no or microsecond travel "time."

Some havve written of space/time being warped--drawing the points where one is and where one wants to go--drawing those points together.

One source has written that time is not the same in all areas but only appears so to us because of our CONTEXT. I feel we know that AT LEAST time on earth is very different form time in Heaven--if time in Heaven even has ANY meaning at all in any conventional sense we could wrap our brains around.

Others assert that there are dimensional shifts that afford short transit times between our area in our galaxy to other areas in extremely distant galaxies. I suppose kind of like falling down Alice's rabbit hole here and coming out a stargate there in rather short order having used another dimension/realm/area of reality entirely as a short-cut.

Others seem to insist that the speed of light is not the boundary we think it is and that at very high speeds things happen or can be made to happen with time which we are not yet aware of.

What do I know. I'm a shrink.

But these options sound at least as plausible as Star Trek does. What's the difference between reality and science fiction? How many authors of science fiction are secret personnel in black projects?

[Macklew]

"What do you think really happened there?"

The Clintons arrived.

[bribriagain]

"Clearly, Spielberg has an interest in ET's, as this is his 3rd project on them. But I doubt it is part of any larger effort, I'd say he is exploring the possibilities on his own, pretty much."

My working theory is that Steven Spielberg IS an ET.

[dinodino]

Physician, heal thyself.

[Quix]

I don't necessarily think ET's would be friendly. If they have been here for ages, it would be an indication that they are friendly, but if they have the ability to warp the dimension of time, then maybe they just got here, in spite of having appeared in the middle ages or earlier. Then their intentions could be anything.

I don't think their being here for ages is an automatic confirmation of their friendliness.

They could be delaying all manner of evil operations until the right time. Perhaps, for example, in support of the Biblically predicted world government.

Satan's goal is to steal as many of God's precious human creation from ending up in Heaven as possible. That's the ONLY way he can get back at God for preventing satan from anything close to being like God. His nature is TO ROB, TO KILL, TO DESTROY. He has no other bent.

Thankfully, he's also only a pawn to afford authentic choice for those being trained to rule and reign.

[Quix]

BILLDO AND SHRILLERY?

BILLDO AND SKULLERY?

Demonic, yes.

Et's, they're not that good.

[Quix]

Spielberg an ET?

I don't think he's THAT clever.

[Quix]

Uhhhhh, which ailment are we talking about here?

[spectre]

The next mini-series to follow Spielberg's Taken on the Sci-fi network will be about Roswell.

I mean how much can we digest? LOL!

sw

[bribriagain]

My other theory is that he and Larry King are trolls. Put them side by side on a library in your mind.

[js1138]

Is it normal for the SciFi channel to have like the ROSWELL archeological study program AND STAR GATE on so repeatedly all week?

Welcome to DSS. It is common for the specialty channels to re-broadcast their more popular shows. For example, SciFi is currently showing "Taken" at least twice every evening, then rebroadcasting it at 7:00 pm the next day, then Again on Saturday. This kind of programming is common.

[js1138]

The government types have certainly been painted as plenty evil. Sadly, given certain factions of the government ...

After Waco, who would be surprised by the characters in "Taken"? In both cases, the government sees itself as defending the country. The Max Headroom character in "Taken" is just a typical curious scientist, one who enjoys seeing hamsters explode in microwave ovens. Reminds me of the carelessly evil scientists in E.T.