Russia to introduce Orthodox religious education in schools for the first time since the Tsars

smh.com.au ^ | November 20 2002 | The Telegraph, London

[eleni121]

I cannot agree with you more re: the Orthodox Church and her refusal to allow missionaries into Russia. I have met many many Pentecostal Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians etc who have imnmigrated into this country enriching it with their wonderful values of a strong Christian vitality and faith and hard working morality. They were hounded and repressed in Soviet times and are not doing much better now in the countries above. How far better for the nations that repress them if they had stayed and helped in the rebuilding of the faith there. I cannot understand why the Orthodox Church which after all collaborated with the Soviet state is so antagonistic to Protestant missionaries working in former Communist nations and doing so much good! Why can't these Christian groups sit together and drink from the same cup of Christian solidarity and belief?

I was born into the Orthodox Christian faith and admire and respect those Protestant denominations which minister to the unchurched and die martyrs' deaths all over the world. I would hope that the curriculum could be more inclusive and call itself Christian rather than Orthodox.

[Polycarp]

If Religious Freedom, by your definition, includes the right to deceive and insult fellow Christians, then yes, I guess I must.

But I had never thought that Religious Freedom encompassed the right to do evil. Even if those doing it perversely think "good" might come of it.

[A. Pole]

I would hope that the curriculum could be more inclusive and call itself Christian rather than Orthodox.

But the Protestantism is a subset of Orthodox (or Roman Catholic) beliefs. If you reduce the curriculum to what is common you will get Protestant curriculum.

History of Russia is uncomprehensible without some knowledge of Orthodoxy same way as history of United Stated is uncomprehensible without some knowledge of Protestantism.

Much better solution is the one used in Polish public schools - non-Catholic minorities like Protestants get the instruction according to their own unadulterated uncompromised curriculum conducted by Protestant ministers or instructors. Orthodox students get Orthodox classes designed by Orthodox clergy and atheists get classes in ethics/philosophy.

[eleni121]

But the Protestantism is a subset of Orthodox (or Roman Catholic) beliefs.

Who says? By the time Protestantism appeared, I am not sure that either the Western or Eastern forms of Christianity were what the apostles had envisioned. Of course, magnificent and crucially important deeds had been acomplished by both (defeat of the Mohamedans) but especially in the west, the Roman version of Christianity had become more humanistic than spiritual. (The Eastern form survived barely and cruelly with no help from its spiritual "brothers" in the west after the fall of Byzantium)

If you reduce the curriculum to what is common you will get Protestant curriculum.

Not sure of your meaning - the fundamentals are common to all forms of Christianity no? Except maybe for some denominations calling themselves Christian but are neither Christian nor Godly.

History of Russia is uncomprehensible without some knowledge of Orthodoxy same way as history of United Stated is uncomprehensible without some knowledge of Protestantism.

I absolutely agree. So when the Russians are teaching history, the role of Orthodoxy should be included in the development of Russia, just as it should be in this country but is not!

[OldCorps]

Dear eleni121

you wrote: "...I cannot understand why the Orthodox Church which after all collaborated with the Soviet state is so antagonistic to Protestant missionaries working in former Communist nations and doing so much good! Why can't these Christian groups sit together and drink from the same cup of Christian solidarity and belief?"

There is a bit of misinformation here. During the 20's the Russian Orthodox Church critisized the evil acts of the God hating communists. Millions of pious Orthodox Christians were martyred for the faith under the communists. Later, Stalin imposed a Soviet hierarchy under Metropolitan Sergius but this hierarchy up to its present day is viewed as tainted by the part of the church that was able to escape abroad, the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, which is not in communion with the Soviet Church.

As for the Protestant missionaries, I can only speak for myself. Most of us Orthodox do not view you as serious Christians. For one thing, there is no apostolic succession for the Protestants. Another reason is that the Protestant movement was founded as a continuation or in reaction to the errors of the Roman Church by Calvin, Luther et. al.

Our Orthodox services were written by the saints of the Church (John Chyrsostom, Basil the Great, Gregory the Theologian) in the very begining of the Christian era (200-300 A.D.), we have not changed the faith, whereas the West, as exemplefied by the RC Church and the Protestants continue to evolve and change. This is why your Protestant churches are subject to political correctness: because there is no foundation, there is no rock to anchor your faith.

Look into Orthodoxy. You will find a depth of faith and worship of God that the early Christians had. Read the early church fathers (which the Western churches always ignore). There you will find Christ's true (Orthodox) church.

Frankly, eleni121 and Motherbear, we do not believe the same things about our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Yes, you call yourselves Christian, but I know that my salvation lies with the Orthodox church, and not some Protestant minister.

In Christ,
Reader John

PS, Thanks Katnip for inviting me to this thread. I take it you are to be or have already been baptized. I wish you Many Years. Please email me privately which parish you attend and the jurisdiction.

[weikel]

Schools( non military schools anyway) are entirely unsuited to teach values. Thats the families job.

[OldCorps]

Motherbear:

We "call" ourselves Christian. Are we not "actually" Christians? Are those your deeply held beliefs (which ...

You call yourself Christians. It is not for me to say what you are or are not. I clearly wrote above, that I speak for myself only. What do you mean as my deeply held beliefs?

[A. Pole]

If you reduce the curriculum to what is common you will get Protestant curriculum.

Not sure of your meaning - the fundamentals are common to all forms of Christianity no? Except maybe for some denominations calling themselves Christian but are neither Christian nor Godly.

No really. For example Catholics and Orthodox believe in the reality of sacraments, Apostolic Succession (unbroken continuity of ordination from the time of Apostles and related continuity of visible Church), communion of saints and prayerful relationship with them. Those are the fundamentals which cannot be given up without betraying the Christian Faith.

If you look what is common with Protestants you will find the doctrine that Jesus is the Saviour, and that God is Holy Trinity and that the Bible is inspired Word of God. But this limited set of beliefs is exactly what Protestantism is about. To be Catholic or Orthodox you must believe in more.

Agreeing to the "common" set would mean Protestantisation. Using another example, to "agree" to the "common" set of beliefs with Jews and Muslims would mean to agree that God is One and censoring out that God is also Holy Trinity and that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of all. This peeling of religious onion ends only when everything is peeled off and you are left with nothing.

[katnip]

Christianity is blossoming in Russia, but in spite of the Russian Orthodox Church, not because of it.

Your very first post on this thread was insulting to all Christians not only Russian Orthodox.

You have out and out said you don't consider Russian Orthodox Christian.

I would have to say that shows your lack of Christian fellowship and knowledge.

I shall pray for you.

[katnip]

NO I have not!

Yes you have dear...

Christianity is blossoming in Russia, but in spite of the Russian Orthodox Church, not because of it.

And if you think you can be a "Cultural Orthodox" and not be "living" the gospel, you are misinformed.

[TopQuark]

The Orthodox Church says teaching religion will help counter alcoholism, AIDS, crime and drug addiction.

This is not even funny: what explains, then, the rampant, wild, centuries-old alcoholism before 1917? These people make it look as if all the evils came from communists. Patently false.

[TopQuark]

I agree with you, Destro: this country was founded by Christians, and its values are deeply rooted in Judeo-Christian values.

What you suggest has been done in this country for centuries, and students of all faiths had no problem learning these notions. This is because it was done in a history class when history was properly taught.

I see risks and no need for making a class such as the one mentioned. What we need is to return to proper education, especially history. NO Jew, Hindu, or Muslim would object to learning how a Christian movement and various philosophical teaching came together in the formation of this great nation --- if it is a part of a history course.