Chinese missile has twice the range U.S. anticipated

The Washington Times ^ | November 20, 2002 | Bill Gertz

[Poohbah]

They talk the Maoist talk, they most assuredly do not walk the walk.

[Libertina]

With gulags, no elections, party control over the populus, control over leaving the country, total conrol over religion and media, ... they are close enough for me. Just because they've given thier masses a meager chance to earn $ don't think they've turned all westernized.

[Poohbah]

There are various flavors of totalitarianism. China's is not a particularly communist one--it's more of a ruling class one. Their methods aren't much different from the previous dynasties that ruled China.

[Libertina]

If you are trying to differentiate the "various flavors" so that you may know better how to dominate them and bend them to your will, then it is perhaps valid. Otherwise, plain communist is ok with me.

[Poohbah]

If you are trying to differentiate the "various flavors" so that you may know better how to dominate them and bend them to your will, then it is perhaps valid. Otherwise, plain communist is ok with me.

Skip the "perhaps" part. And it's vitally important to understand what the Chinese want. Some things they want, we can safely not give a damn about. Other things, we have to be ready to smack 'em down HARD. The important part is to know which is which.

The world revolution crap? Fuggedaboudit, communism officially earned the title "The God That Failed" way back in 1991.

Maoism is of ZERO motivation to these people--they view themselves as another form of dynastic rule, in keeping with Chinese culture and history. That is going to influence their goals and methods.

China has never been a maritime power, except for a brief period when they sent trading expeditions to Africa--and the emperor actually ordered the ships burnt, because he was afraid that the Chinese mercantile class would become very un-Chinese. They ain't going to be a maritime power anytime soon, either. Their main mode of power projection will run towards efforts at continental hegemony--and that means that we, as the supreme maritime power, will have the option of war extension and the threat of raising antihegemonic coalitions.

[Dog Gone]

My ass...!

Yes, your ass. Explain your concept of communism, keeping in mind its economic core, and explain how China is communist today.

[Libertina]

Other things, we have to be ready to smack 'em down HARD
This we can agree upon. I perhaps misunderstood your meaning re China. To me they could prove a real threat and I don't buy any nonsense about how western and capitalist they are. Both ends of the Panama Canal, COSCO on either US Coast, large port facility in Long Beach, missiles, nationalistic masses, attitude and Clinton et al "helping."

[freebilly]

No "communist" state has ever been anything more than a fascistic dictatorship. China today is no different than Stalin's Soviet Union with a little soft core capitalism puked on top of it to attract foreign investment.

Call it fascism if you want; that's where communism always ends up....

[Poohbah]

To me they could prove a real threat and I don't buy any nonsense about how western and capitalist they are.

Not western--Chinese. They are getting very capitalist, though. The elites in the coastal regions (the special economic zones) really do not want a war with the West, because the money will stop coming in.

Both ends of the Panama Canal, COSCO on either US Coast, large port facility in Long Beach, missiles, nationalistic masses, attitude and Clinton et al "helping."

Re: COSCO. They sail and drop the hook solely at the pleasure of the US Navy--and they know it.

Re: missiles. Like I told ninenot, read T.R. Fehrenbach's This Kind of War. You can bomb a place all you want, but if you're going to claim sovereignty over it, you gotta insert troops on the ground to claim it with rifle and bayonet. The Chicoms will learn (actually re-learn) this in time.

Re: nationalistic masses. Double-edged sword, that. Today, they may bray for a war against the decadent imperialist West.

Tomorrow, they may bray for a war against the soft "cosmopolite" Manchurians/Cantonese/Shanghaians (I call the region between Shanghai and Hong Kong "Shang Kong," and it's a faultline of modern China--the folks outside Shang Kong hate the folks inside who are making money hand over fist, and the folks inside are getting awfully tired of carrying the rest of the country).

[Dog Gone]

I call it fascism because that's what it is. It's every bit as totalitarian as the previous communist system, but capitalism is thriving in China today.

The good thing is that it is beginning to create a middle class in China, and that is a time bomb for any totalitarian regime.

[Dog Gone]

In your world, making China a democracy will prevent them from 'killing us?'

Something special about a democracy?

Do you live in a different world?

Please list all the democracies that have attacked us so I can understand your point.

[Vinnie_Vidi_Vici]

The Chinese probably replaced the warhead with extra tanks to extend the range, just to give us an inflated impression of the capability.

[ninenot]

The way you phrased the statement, 'making China a democracy [will prevent them] from attacking us.'

That is a non-sequitur, and your followup question is also a non-sequitur.

China, like any other country, will attack us if: 1) we have something they want VERY badly and 2) we appear to be weak enough to be ineffective in a counter-attack.

Sorry. Democracy has nothing to do with it.

[Dog Gone]

Ignoring for the moment that you added words to my statement, please list some examples of where a democracy has attacked another democracy. If your list is short, please explain why democracy has nothing to do with it.

[batter]

Thanks for the bump!