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To: ancient_geezer
If government were, say, only 15% of GDP, nobody would much care HOW they were taxed - VAT, flat tax, etc., would all be pretty much OK, since the overall hit would not be so bad. Plus it would be easier to make the switch from income tax to VAT (much less intrusive) because the stakes would be lower and people would not be so suspicous of a hidden tax increase. Tax reform should not just be about HOW we are taxed, but that, fundamentally we are taxed WAY TOO MUCH.
26 posted on 11/20/2002 8:53:07 AM PST by eno_
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To: eno_

Plus it would be easier to make the switch from income tax to VAT (much less intrusive) because the stakes would be lower and people would not be so suspicous of a hidden tax increase.

The fundamental purposes of VATs is to assure payment and allow unperceived increases in tax rates. They always rise and the individual still pays them, the taxes are just hidden from the electorate's view in the price of goods and services as inflation.

Secondly VATs impose the greatest burden on the economy through overhead costs associated with planning, accounting, litigation, and payment of such taxes increasing such taxes by more than 65% of what they generate in revenues, not even counting the increased administration costs that hits the government budget.

Last, I really hate to be the one to inform you but for all practical purposes, our corporate tax is a VAT.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/foundationmessage03-00.html

"Under the WTO definition of the term, a sales tax is an indirect tax, as is an European-style VAT. The economic equivalence of an European-style VAT and a subtraction-method VAT is well-established. A subtraction-method VAT is essentially identical to a business income tax except that all purchases of plant and equipment may be expensed, rather than depreciated as under current U.S. law."

And every man woman and child in the nation, pays federal taxes through that VAT.

DO YOU PAY YOUR INCOME TAX
AT THE SUPERMARKET?

by D. Sherman Cox J.D. L.L.M. Taxation

The idea is to get rid of it and to remove the blinders over the electorates eyes, not to hide taxes even more than we do already.

To remove taxation of the individual, is to remove the goad which assures accountability of government to the electorate. Federal tax rates are high because a majority of the electorate do not proportionately perceive burden their demand for largesse imposes on the minority of citizens.

The siren call for representation without taxation is the formula that got us where we are at today. The ability to hide or disguise taxation from the view of large sectors of the electorate allows the Congress to get away with the creation of the evergrowing monster that it fosters.

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-George Bernard Shaw

Liberty and freedom have a price, responsibility. If that price is avoided there are no brakes on the growth of government, the ultimate result is the end of freedom through creeping socialism.

Right now the bottom 60% perceive little to no "Individual Income Tax" burden,(in many cases even a handout) and 70% of the voting public clamors for more from government looking for the top 40% of income earners/producers to foot the bill. That perception continues to grow ever stronger by eliminating even more participants from the Federal Individual Income Tax rolls as proposed in the tax reduction proposals through changes in personal exemption limits and other mechanisms such as the EITC, transfer of taxation into corporate(i.e. hidden sales) taxes.

29 posted on 11/20/2002 9:42:28 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: eno_

Tax reform should not just be about HOW we are taxed, but that, fundamentally we are taxed WAY TOO MUCH.

Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratifying Convention June 12, 1788:

Until you make the taxes visible to all, there will be no incentive to reduce the size of government, nor to reduce taxation.

Milton Friedman as quoted by Northwest Florida Daily News, 10-16-2000:

We wonder why over 60% of the voters PERCEIVE no problem with the taxrates and vote for polidiots that promise to bring home the most bacon because they are the only ones that benefit from higher taxes with more spending on socialistic "gimme" programs. As this continues under Bush or anyone else for that matter, expect a liberal tax and waste congress for many years to come.

We are all paying through the nose, rich and poor while politicians play the tune of envy and resentment that Americans continue to respond to not understanding the full picture what is happening to them. The NRST is a means to open VOTERS eyes to the reality.

30 posted on 11/20/2002 9:48:41 AM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: eno_
How much % is the gov't of GDP now?
51 posted on 12/05/2002 6:04:24 AM PST by jjm2111
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