Powell attacks Christian right

Guardian ^ | Friday November 15, 2002 | Oliver Burkeman

[nickcarraway]

Colin Powell, the US secretary of state, condemned America's Christian right yesterday for propagating hatred against Muslims, in what appeared to be a coordinated White House campaign to confront anti-Islamic rhetoric from a constituency that includes some of the Bush administration's staunchest supporters. Days after the televangelist Pat Robertson said on his Christian Broadcasting Network that "what the Muslims want to do to the Jews is worse" than the Holocaust, Mr Powell told a gathering in Washington: "This kind of hatred must be rejected."

The escalation in anti-Muslim comments from conservative Christians includes a recent claim by Jerry Falwell, the country's leading rightwing Baptist, that the prophet Mohammed was "a terrorist".

Veteran evangelist Jimmy Swaggart followed that this week by calling Mohammed a "sex deviant" and a pervert and demanding that Muslim students in the US be expelled. "We ought to tell every other Muslim living in this nation that if you say one word, you're gone," he said.

As the likelihood grows of a war in Iraq there are strategic benefits for the White House in convincing Muslims that it would not be a war against their religion.

The administration's increased willingness to confront the Christian right reflects the Republicans' sweeping victories in last week's mid-term elections, reducing Mr Bush's reliance on the extreme fringes of his supporter base.

[shellylet]

Well said!!!! (post #34)

A lot of Jerry Falwells comments are taken completely out of context by the liberal media. He is one of the nicest people you would ever want to know. He also has quite a sense of humor, which is why he is most likely able to put up with the ignorant people that believe every word they read or hear from that same liberal media!

[para4smfa]

"Where in the Koran does it say to commit acts of terrorism on people that did absolutely nothing to you."

Right here:

sura 9:5: "Fight and slay the pagans [anyone who is not Muslim] wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in *every* stratagem of war".

Sura 8:59: "Let not the unbelievers think they will ever get away...strike *terror* into the enemy of God and your enemy...rouse the faithful to arms! If they incline to peace (*) make peace with them"

(*) context shows that this actually means "accept the Islamic faith", and *not* what most Westerners would interpret "incline to peace" to mean.

Sura 6:152: A Muslim can kill *any* person he wishes if it be a "just cause" ("just cause" == United Islamic States of America? "just cause" == eliminate the Jewish "scourge" from "Palestine (all of it)"? etc)

Sura 9:29: "Fight those who believe not even if they be People of the book [Christians and Jews] until they have willingly agreed to pay the Jizya tribute in recognition of their submissive state."

Sura 5:33: If Islam is resisted: "Their punishment is...execution or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet, the opposite sides, or exile from the land."

Sura 9:73: "Prophet, make war on unbelievers and hypocrites and deal rigorously with them."

Sura 5:49: "If they reject your judgement, know that it is Allah's wish to scourge them for their sins".

---

Concerning your friends who are Muslim. They are acting in contradiction to their own Holy Book by befriending you.

Sura 5:51: "Believers [Muslims] take neither Jews nor Christans to be your friends; they are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number, and God does not guide wrong-doers [e.g. those who are Jews or Christians]."

Sura 5:60 "O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport..."

---

Sura 4:90: "seize them and put them to death wherever you find them, kill them wherever you find them, seek out the enemies of Islam relentlessly"

Sura 2:193: "Fight them until Islam reigns supreme"

Sura 8:12: "Cut off their heads, and cut off the tips of their fingers"

Sura 9:123: Muslims must make war on the infidels (unbelievers) who live around them. This makes no exception for "non-combatants" -- and you would expect that "those who live near" are by-and-large what we would call civilians.

Sura 48:29: Muslims are to be "ruthless to unbelievers"

Also...
Sura 2:273
Sura 4:96
Sura 4:101

[ApesForEvolution]

If Powell sticks around for another term, which he won't, Bush loses in 04. The fringe, magnified, means little. The base, magnified, energized the whole party, and means winning or losing.

[ApesForEvolution]

He repented, got right with God, received grace, and has moved on with his call.

[ApesForEvolution]

Most of them say 'if it weren't for your support of Israel, etc., excuse, another reason, blah, blah, blah', then these things wouldn't happen. Always a qualifier or rationalization of 'why'.

[ApesForEvolution]

Pro-abortion, pro-affirmative-action, anti-school choice...but he's our black cabinet member.

[ApesForEvolution]

Either way, they're stupid. Whether it's their own ideas or someone else's, they are spouting it...

[ApesForEvolution]

You would think logic/fact/truth would work, but we live in a highly emotive/irrational generation...

[nonsporting]

Swaggert calls someone a sexual deviant?

Takes one to know one.

[mdmathis6]

If they pronounced a sentence of Hell on a specific person, they might be in the wrong. The phrase "I'll pray for you" could be interpreted as condescending and judgmental, but in the case of condescending Dershowitz...it was as close as as to calling him an "a-hole" as a protestant minister could ever get in public.

The trap of being a conservative protestant minister, and a news-worthy one at that, is that to remain true to your faith, you have to say that unless a man "be born again, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God". I know it is impolitic and a lot of people hate you for saying it..but there it is. Moslems don't like the contradiction between their ideal world and reality, but their religion gives them the justification for the use of any means possible to bring about their ideal world. Non-Christians don't like the contradiction between their view of themselves as self- sufficient, self identifying as opposed to the view of themselves as in need of God,pending damnation in Hell. They'll do all they can to paint the messenger as intolerant and evil....(he's a hypocrite,he didn't say what he said in a "PC" way, ect.)

Do you disagree that history says that Mohammed married a 9 year old, being known for sexual excesses and that he advocated extreme violence against all Infidels? Kill the messenger(Falwell) if you want to but a spade is a spade. Egypt is broadcasting a "rendition" of the Elders of Zion which is sure to further the flames of anti-semitism in that country. Translations of Palestinian television shows at the time of the Oslo peace talks show the true face of Islam as these people practised it..Arafat speaking of "peace" to us while teaching war against Israel and the U.S. Are you saying Robertson was being extreme or teaching "hate" by calling a spade a spade when he says that Moslems would like to do Jews the same or worse as what Hitler did to them?

Okay, not "all" Moslems may feel antipathy towards the west or Israel, perhaps more considered language should have been used by Robertson and Falwell. But my criticism of Falwell and Robertson is that they apologize too quickly when publically criticized for their views. There is an expression that goes...when you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the one who yelps the loudest is the one the rock hit.(and deserved to be hit as well).

Remember the riots in India after Falwell's criticism of Mohammed, riots attributed to Falwell's views...Islam injured itself that day...not Falwell's views!

Finally, have you ever heard these men advocate flying a 747 in to the Kaaba stone at Mecca? No! Have you ever heard them advocate bombing Moslem children and families via suicide bombings? No! Do you hear these men ever advocate the overthrow of the US government in order to set up the Falwellian Theocracy? No! Yet radical Islam advocates the destruction of America, the killing of her "infidel" citizens unless they convert, and the setting up of an Americal Islamic Caliphate! So much for the phony view of Falwell and Robertson being "hate" mongers!

We have entered into a frightening age, our generation is to be tested..much like the generation that existed during WW2 and the cold war was tested. We are going to have to face hard questions that we have denied facing..questions of truth and faith, questions of loyalty and trust..even if they seem to come from unpopular and non-PC messengers!

[RJCogburn]

He repented, got right with God, received grace, and has moved on with his call.

That was easy.

[ApesForEvolution]

Yeah, it's called grace. Should we have stoned him first?

[Gophack]

I wasn't going to get involved in this conversation, but I feel that you're the only one defending a Christian world view and I want to support you in that.

I am sure that there are many Muslims in America that want to destroy our country. There are probably more liberals who want to than Muslims, they just don't take up arms to do it, they simply take away our guns,

As a Christian, I am called by Jesus Christ to love my neighbor and love my enemy. I will not condemn all Muslims because some Muslims hate America and killed our people. Should I hate all Germans because Hitler and his Nazis killed the Jews? Should I hate all Japanese because they bombed Pearl Harbor and killed Americans? Should I hate all Jews because they crucified Jesus Christ?

I think all Christians should seriously think and pray on this. There are many evil people in the world, Muslims and non-Muslims. Evil people must be stopped from committing evil. But as CHRISTIANS, we can not allow ourselves to be so filled with blanket hatred for any group, religion, or race. Muslims are still children of God, and they can still find the Truth in Jesus Christ.

I am not a peace-nik who thinks we can solve all our problems with talk. I do believe that many Muslims want to kill Jews and Christians -- all we have to do is look at Israel and 9/11 to know that. Those people must and should be stopped, and if Saddam Hussein is aiding and abetting them, I hope Bush and his people put an end to it.

But I will not side with those so-called Christians who want to throw an entire group of people out of college because of their race. We need to be careful, we need to be cautious, but most of all we need to be Christ-like in our thoughts and our deeds.

God bless you for defending Christian values, and God bless everyone else as well.

[winstonchurchill]

My three kids have friends of different denominations and religions but the Muslims have never tried to convert anyone but that cannot be said about some others. Kids and their parents from two denominations, in particular, want to convert everyone they meet.

There is obviously a lot of confusion in your mind on this, but try making a couple of simple assumptions which might help you understand.

Suppose -- just suppose for the purpose of the argument -- that you became convinced that the God of the Universe had somehow imparted His essence to earth in the form of a very special human who could and did, in turn, disclose the very essence of human life. Further presume that you became convinced that this Man and His sayings and doings were accurately recorded in a book which had been accurately preserved over a great deal of time.

Naturally, you would think that, since this Person had opened the best of life to you, the very nicest, kindest, most generous thing you could do would be to share it with others struggling on in the darkness, bumping into things for lack of that Person in their lives.

No surprise. Now, can people be wrong about the details, but you can't really blame people for wanting to tell you or your children about the most important Person in history -- assuming of course that the Bible is true.

So IF it is true, it is quite reasonable to "try to convert" you as you put it. IF it is not, they are simply being arbitrary.

[hope]

"Ah well, we were warned about false prophets"

Yup, unfortunately hypocrisy knows no religious bounds.

[billhilly]

Good for you. Frankly, I find it amusing that Jimmie Swaggert calls anyone a sexual deviant after his days of trolling for New Orleans prostitutes, or that his fellow televangelist Jim Bakker and Jessica Hahn were getting it on while Tammy Faye,.......oh well.

As for Robertson and Fallwell and Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, just shut up.

[CyberCowboy777]

He must be and there must be some stupid people donating to him as well!

Why are you so full of hate?

A little hypocritical of you to defend the Muslims from group bashing and then bash whole segments of Christians who speak facts.

BTW - Many Muslims in America have turned up as Terrorists, even ones born here. Or do you miss those reports and only latch onto negative reports on the Christians who irritate you?

[Rick Boggs]

McVeigh also was not a member of any militia group either.

[Jorge]

>We have Muslims in my community that are as supportive of the United States as anyone else here.<

Hmmm. Not really. If you press them on it, they have devotion to a theoretical United Islamic States (under Sharia) but wish to destroy the society you and I live in (literally).

What about those Muslims who provided aid and info that lead to the arrest of the Muslim terrorists in Buffalo?
You're wrong.

[Jorge]

Someone told me recently that I probably don't belong on this forum and I am beginning to think they may be right.

The hatred I see on here against others that is reflected by these religious leaders goes beyond my comprehension.

No...you DO BELONG here. There are many of us who agree with you, with Powell and our wonderful President!

God bless!