The Democrats stole two Senate seats--and still it wasn't enough ~ WSJ.

The Wall Street Journal. editorial page ^ | November 14, 2002 | The Wall Street Journal. Editorial Board

[Elle Bee]

It's not enough for John Thune to just talk about "unethical" voting practices.

Republican John Thune threw in the towel on his South Dakota Senate race yesterday, notwithstanding the suspicious circumstances under which he lost by a mere 524 votes. We think that at a minimum he owed his many supporters a recount.

[sweetliberty]

That makes it harder to verify. Colorado doesn't require ID either; in fact, I think it is illegal to ask for it, but then Colorado has not been plagued with voter fraud either like some other states....yet. Here in Arkansas where ID is suppodedly required, the Rats still raise h*ll when asked to produce it, claiming intimidation of black voters. What a bunch of crap. Either you are legally entitled to vote or you're not. If you are then there is no reason to be intimidated and if you're not, it isn't intimidation; it is that you're mad you got caught.

[Coop]

South Dakota is a Republican State.

North and South Dakota are reliable GOP states in Presidential elections. Yet they have four Dem Senators.

[ForGod'sSake]

For later.

[Reb Raider]

Whew--I can understand we are all angry,but I don't understand how anyone thinks a recount would do anything but help Johnson. The dems have shown time and time again they can come up with as many votes as they want--then you would only legitimize the winner which would be Johnson. You are not going to beat the dem machine at this well practiced game.

What you can do,that was not done under Reno/Clinton is prosecute everyone you catch. They don't want to go down alone,so they tell investigators how the fraud was done and who told them to do it. Fact: We have both a president and attny.general who know exactly how it feels to be in an election tainted by fraud. Ashcroft made a point of saying he wanted all voter fraud prosecuted. Fact: We won many close races that would have most likely gone the other way if monitors and new voting machines weren't being used. Where was our biggest win in what was to be a close election? Florida,because the dems by getting greedy in the pres.election have dug themselves a hole. Too many reforms had been made and officials monitoring precincts for them to make up the trash they did in 2000. We win. Fact: You are being unreasonable to expect every state to get cleaned up from the Clinton/Reno stentch of lawlessness and longstanding fraud used by the dem. party in just a couple of years. At least acknowledge we are making some progress.

Fact: Georgia was set free because their new voting machines use a card similar to your atm card--once you vote it cannot be used again. Fact: A new law was enacted and signed by Bush in the month prior to these elections. South Dakota,New York and other states must require I.D. to vote now and millions of $$ have been sent to states for updating voting equipment and for cleaning up voter rolls. Bush stated we needed to regain our trust in the voting process. Fact: Ashcroft didn't blow off the fraud in S. Dakota--he sent 30 FBI agents prior to the election and they are still there. Unlike a recount where we have little to no chance of finding over 500 Thune votes because they were probably burned or shredded days ago, the courts are where we will win. People who see their friends going to jail may think twice before cheating for them in the next election. The focus when this investigation is through will be on the various ways dems cheated to win a senate seat. If you have a recount,media will say that makes us just like Gore.Of course it wouldn't,but you don't really think they will make that destinction do you? Fact: We will be able to list numerous vote fraud scams the dems have been prosecuted for,they can only wave flyers that they typed up themselves trying to get their base fired up.

Fact: We know prosecutions are occuring--pretty quickly actually and I see no reason to believe they will stop.Some of the first people implicated were the state dem. party and also one or two of Daschle's old aides that were in charge of getting the indians registered and voting for Johnson. Those investigations ought to prove very interesting. Fact: A dem. governor won't leave even though no voter fraud has been proven. Even if he believes in his bones he was cheated,for now he just looks like a sore looser. This trend will continue until dems loose enough races to figure out the voters don't want to hear theories not backed up with proof that the fraud would have changed the outcome of the election.

Fact: I can't imagine anyone on this thread is more disheartened than Thune himself and until all the facts come out it seems you could be a little more patient. I didn't say don't get mad as hell--that's where I was several days ago. Fact: alot of the cheating was done by absentee ballots--30% of all votes in one of the indian counties in question. If the investigation proves fraud with these ballots,which a recount couldn't,then the republican state office holders can demand some changes be made to their lax policy with absentee ballots and will have the support of the voters to do so. That change coupled with the new law to show I.D. will make a huge dent in their ability to cheat. Fact: In the end you help close down a dem cheat machine that more than likely got in Daschle when he first ran and won by approx.128 votes statewide. We have to take it state by state and not expect all our victories to be overnight. Florida and close races we won were a good start. And last,but not least, I know this is too long and full of "facts" :)

[mlo]

In a recount, all you are doing is recounting the fraudulaent votes.

A recount is how you get to look at the votes and detect fraud. During the recount Thune can challenge ballots. How are you going to find something you never look for?

[sweetliberty]

"If most of the votes came in absentee, one can still do a signature check."

That has limited real value though. I worked in absentee ballots here in Arkansas this year, another fraud hotspot, and while nearly 25% of the ballots were challenged, our group found few signature discrepancies. The biggest discrepancies were in birthdate and there was an unlikely preponderance of ballots from "centurions".

The fraud largely needs to be nipped in the bud at the registration and request for absentee ballot levels. I'm not exactly sure how to go about that. The laws in various states are widely varied and what may work for one may not work in another, and I don't know that that could be in any way be standardized without furthur expanding the federal government's role which I don't think is the answer either. One thing is for sure though. If we don't do something pretty quickly, people will continue to lose faith in the electoral process and we will end up with a bigger mess than we have now, never being confident that the leaders who are serving are the ones who were elected.

[sweetliberty]

" If you think that Johnson mobilized the reservations, what do you think they'll do for Daschle?"

It seems to me that the mobilization of the reservations was more a fraud-inflated over estimation at best. And as far as any real supposrt for Daschle next time around, seems to me that I heard he isn't in too much favor with the natives for promising everything and delivering nothing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[sweetliberty]

LOL!

[Exit148]

"I think this is wrong. Mr. Thune has an obligation, not to himself, but, to the citizenry, to have this thing investigated."

And not just to the citizenry of South Dakota.

Any one Senator, from any one state, affects us all!

[sweetliberty]

" Oh, Lord, how long?"

Keep the faith. When I lived in Colorado we suffered I can't remember how many terms under Clinton's #1 butt boy, Roy Romer, but when he was finally ousted he was replaced by a conservative Republican in Governor Bill Owens because the people were sick of Clintonism. It is going to take a long while to purge the toxic waste those people deposited indiscriminantly throughout our political landscape.

[sweetliberty]

capitize = capitalize

[Wphile]

The other point, which some have made, is that for some reason John Thune got considerably less of the Republican vote than either the candidate for Governor or the lone Congressional candidate. I have no doubt there was fraud involved on the part of the Democrats but had the Republicans just voted Republican, instead of hedging their bets on a Democrat majority status, we wouldn't be in this mess at all. Thune's loss is the fault of the SD Republicans.

[sweetliberty]

suppodedly = supposedly

That's 2 and I proofread. Sheesh!

[The Irishman]

Thune was hand-picked by Karl Rove. He was and is a wimp. The candidate should have been Bill Janklow who took Thune's house seat. Unfortunately, Janklow is too much of a free thinker to have gotten Rove's nod.

Thune is history.

Regards.

[sweetliberty]

Sounds like Georgia might have it right. Of course, in Arkansas, they would be screaming that black voters would be disenfrancised. So what if that claim has no basis in fact. I suppose it would be "intimidating" to voters too stupid to use the card correctly.

Anyway, thanks for that post. I find it encouraging that some of these measure are being are being put in place. Hope they find their way here because I dare say we are one of the states most desperately in need of reform.

[Saundra Duffy]

This is some scary sh-t.

[sweetliberty]

supposrt = support

Make that 3.

[sweetliberty]

measure - measures.

I give up!

[ApesForEvolution]

If he doesn't demand this election stand the scrutiny of the light of day then who wants to ever support him again?

[ApesForEvolution]

No, just a tomahawk, bottle of whiskey and $10...