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To: palmer
The moment when the egg becomes fertilised is not in any sense arbitrary. It is the time when two separate human substances actually form a distinct, complete human life.

As for black and white morality, I don't know any morality that is not "black and "white" in the sense that you mean it. Morality is about telling you what is right and what is wrong. People who talk about grey areas in my experience just want to avoid calling a spade a spade, a terrorist a terrorist and something evil evil.




42 posted on 11/08/2002 8:53:22 PM PST by Tomalak
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To: Tomalak
Morality is about telling you what is right and what is wrong.

"Morals" are a deceptive replacement for the avoidance of sin. Morality is a human invention. Morals come from man. Conviction of the Holy Spirit comes from God - - if you are a Christian.

I challenge many people who use the argument of "morality" as opposed to logic. The Religious Left uses the bait and switch (borrowed from Sears) "moral" argument to justify public funding of abortion.

I am an atheist who is stridently anti-abortion. Abortion is a ritualized mass murder cult, a widespread human sacrifice of the idolatrous and Pagan Religious Left...

Where do I get this idea?

Consider the words of Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan:

Part IV. Of the Kingdom of Darkness

Chap. xlv. Of Demonology and other Relics of the Religion of the Gentiles.

[14] An image, in the most strict signification of the word, is the resemblance of something visible: in which sense the fantastical forms, apparitions, or seemings of visible bodies to the sight, are only images; such as are the show of a man or other thing in the water, by reflection or refraction; or of the sun or stars by direct vision in the air; which are nothing real in the things seen, nor in the place where they seem to be; nor are their magnitudes and figures the same with that of the object, but changeable, by the variation of the organs of sight, or by glasses; and are present oftentimes in our imagination, and in our dreams, when the object is absent; or changed into other colours, and shapes, as things that depend only upon the fancy. And these are the images which are originally and most properly called ideas and idols, and derived from the language of the Grecians, with whom the word eido signifieth to see. They are also called phantasms, which is in the same language, apparitions. And from these images it is that one of the faculties of man's nature is called the imagination. And from hence it is manifest that there neither is, nor can be, any image made of a thing invisible.

[15] It is also evident that there can be no image of a thing infinite: for all the images and phantasms that are made by the impression of things visible are figured. But figure is quantity every way determined, and therefore there can be no image of God, nor of the soul of man, nor of spirits; but only of bodies visible, that is, bodies that have light in themselves, or are by such enlightened.

[16] And whereas a man can fancy shapes he never saw, making up a figure out of the parts of divers creatures, as the poets make their centaurs, chimeras and other monsters never seen, so can he also give matter to those shapes, and make them in wood, clay or metal. And these are also called images, not for the resemblance of any corporeal thing, but for the resemblance of some phantastical inhabitants of the brain of the maker. But in these idols, as they are originally in the brain, and as they are painted, carved moulded or molten in matter, there is a similitude of one to the other, for which the material body made by art may be said to be the image of the fantastical idol made by nature.

"...but for the resemblance of some phantastical inhabitants of the brain of the maker. But in these idols, as they are originally in the brain, and as they are painted, carved moulded or molten in matter, there is a similitude of one to the other,..."

56 posted on 11/09/2002 5:27:07 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood
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To: Tomalak
The moment when the egg becomes fertilised is not in any sense arbitrary. It is the time when two separate human substances actually form a distinct, complete human life.

I don't think there's such a moment, only a continuum. To idealize one spot on the continuum and declare that conceptual thing as a complete human is indeed arbitrary.

70 posted on 11/09/2002 6:35:56 PM PST by palmer
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To: Tomalak
The moment when the egg becomes fertilised is not in any sense arbitrary. It is the time when two separate human substances actually form a distinct, complete human life.

Do you want to outlaw abortion from the point of conception? Then we'd have to outlaw many forms of contraception, too, as some are suspected as abortifacients. Is that what you think we should do?

328 posted on 11/12/2002 9:31:59 PM PST by Tired of Taxes
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