Progress in Kosovo 'Slow-Going,' Security Council Told

palestinechronicle.com ^ | Thursday, November 07 2002 @ 04:05 PM GMT | United Nations News Center

[branicap]

One more thing:

University of Nish,Faculty of Medicine ,100 miles north of Prishtina has an Institute for Biomedical Research with two state of the art electronic microscopes and equipement for spectrophoto analysis.If Ranta wanted to confirm or denie resaults of paraffin test(beyond any doubt) samples could have been tested there!Or in FBI labs!?Within 72 hours we should all know that resaults were FALSE POSITIVE or TRULY POSITIVE,right?That is what an honest scientist would do>Not Ranta,of course!Why:because she knew that test)parafin) would have been confirmed and the whole "massacre" story exposed for it really was.Therefore,lets dismiss the test(not 100 % accurate) but,also,lets not follow up and disprove it scientificaly!

How simple!

[The Big Dog]

What a ridiculous article. First of all, Emperor's Clothes is blindly pro-Milosevic, so it's not a good source to get unbiased information about Milosevic's opponenets.

Secondly, it's no secret that Otpor received funding from many western sources. What's wrong with that? They needed money, and someone was offering them some, so why not take it?

And finally, although Otpor was trained by the west how to do successful protests and things like that, it was entirely a Serbian organization, not a tool of the west. Otherwise why do you think the vast majority of Serbs supported it?

The events of the last two years proved your article wrong. Milosevic was overthrown, and in his place was installed a nationalist president, not a western puppet as Jared Israel predicted.

[Wraith]

It has been a long time branicap. Your post is most appreciated especially with someone from the medical profession. As time goes on the truth will continue to fall through the cracks and the this cover-up exposed. One day that beer will be a reality.

[smokegenerator]

the vast majority of the Serbs did not support OTPOR. Im not sure whom you may have spoken with in Serbia/CG, or have you spoken to a few differant legal citizens of Serbia (currently residing IN Serbia).
---
The same can be said of un.org being pro-west, therefore it is not a good source of information to get unbiased information about NATO/NWO opponents, right?

When you have company men personally onsite training and paying for their travels to the west to recieve intel and training, that makes them a tool of the west, right?
In other terms, because Bosnian Serbs recieved training and some funding from Yugoslavia, does not make them a tool of Milosevic either, correct?

Now, you are leaving yourself open for return fire with your poor knowledge of the situation. Get caught up to speed prior to your asinine postings, other wise, you fall in the same trap of the whiny crybaby Hoplite.

[smokegenerator]

FWIW- Kostunica of course is not a tool of the west. Djindjic is, who recieved all the necassary training and funing from the west. Why do you suppose such rivalry exists between the two? Many consider Kostunica a lackey, non-doer. I do not, I understand his mind and I suspect I know what he is doing. He is clever enough to fool the west and get where he is now.

By the Fall of 2003, Djindjic will be sidelined. Djindjic will be Serbia's Gore, as he will have a seat in the corner next to Hoplite.

[Wraith]

Vooch I would say Racak was politically a pro LDK supporting village but most of all pro Albanian. The UCK considered it anti UCK because they considered Rugova a traitor which made it easy for them to make the Racak villagers martyrs for the cause. Once the Racak villagers returned they were told by the UCK that the Serbs were responsible and they believed it as well.

The only thing that stood out and was suspicious was the fact that the KLA prevented the KVM observers from going to Racak on January 15, 1999. The Racak villagers were angry because they believe that the UCK were responsible for the Serbs killing the Racak villagers because they stopped the KVM from going in to witness what was going on. The UCK tried to arrest those denouncing the UCK during a public gathering but the unarmed LDK supporters at Stimelje mobbed the few UCK soldiers thereby protecting their own. The Stimelje population who distrusted the UCK were almost involved with a potentially violent situation with fellow Albanians? LDK representatives were targeted by the UCK military police arm the PU

The UCK PU from the Stimlje area were involved with attempted murders/ intimidation of LDK party members who publicly denounced those KLA members on January 15,1999 for interfering with the KVM observers. A huge back lash and division within the Albanian community in Stimelje took place. To this day try an go to Racak and investigate or even talk about any controversial issue about Racak. The locals and I don’t mean the villagers will tune you in very quickly. Why did an Albanian investigating judge who wanted to investigate the Racak incident be forced away at gunpoint by the UCK. Its obvious who is in control.

NO, this can not be found on CNN or in Ranta’s dental report., because it was suppressed by the powers in control at the time. I know, because I was suppressed as well. I speak because the deaths of 45 innocent human beings should not have happened, all because of an excuse to cross a boarder.

[Wraith]

Vooch I would say Racak was politically a pro LDK supporting village but most of all pro Albanian. The UCK considered it anti UCK because they considered Rugova a traitor which made it easy for them to make the Racak villagers martyrs for the cause. Once the Racak villagers returned they were told by the UCK that the Serbs were responsible and they believed it as well.

The only thing that stood out and was suspicious was the fact that the KLA prevented the KVM observers from going to Racak on January 15, 1999. The Racak villagers were angry because they believe that the UCK were responsible for the Serbs killing the Racak villagers because they stopped the KVM from going in to witness what was going on. The UCK tried to arrest those denouncing the UCK during a public gathering but the unarmed LDK supporters at Stimelje mobbed the few UCK soldiers thereby protecting their own. The Stimelje population who distrusted the UCK were almost involved with a potentially violent situation with fellow Albanians? LDK representatives were targeted by the UCK military police arm the PU

The UCK PU from the Stimlje area were involved with attempted murders/ intimidation of LDK party members who publicly denounced those KLA members on January 15,1999 for interfering with the KVM observers. A huge back lash and division within the Albanian community in Stimelje took place. To this day try an go to Racak and investigate or even talk about any controversial issue about Racak. The locals and I don’t mean the villagers will tune you in very quickly. Why did an Albanian investigating judge who wanted to investigate the Racak incident be forced away at gunpoint by the UCK. Its obvious who is in control.

NO, this can not be found on CNN or in Ranta’s dental report., because it was suppressed by the powers in control at the time. I know, because I was suppressed as well. I speak because the deaths of 45 innocent human beings should not have happened, all because of an excuse to cross a boarder.

[inquest]

Now then, you stipulate that it was not a paraffin test, echoing Dobricanin's later attempt to confuse the issue, but this flies in the face of numerous statements to the contrary, coming from both Milosevic and those he's cross examining at his trial:

Looks like the only one "confusing the issue" has been Helen Ranta, as the testimony you quoted indicates. General Naumann stated: "I am aware of the fact that the Finnish doctor stated that you and the Belarus doctors applied techniques which are outdated and not very accurate." But as I showed you in my previous post, the Finnish doctor did not say that, but in typical Clintonian slimeball fashion insinuated it without having to back it up. Judging by the proceedings, it looks as though that insinuation gained currency as "fact", at least until Dr. Dobricanin stepped up to un-confuse the issue. You'll need to do better than that if you're going to accuse Dr. Dobricanin - whose conduct has been unimpeachable by both the OSCE and the Finnish team, and whose methods Dr. Ranta said her team approved of - of bald-faced lying.

Ranta is the one who was being inconsistent and disingenuous, yet amazingly you rely on and link to her statements as objective fact, but instinctively cast doubt on everything Dobricanin has to say. Thus if he says something that even appears to contradict Ranta, automatically he's the one who's "confusing the issue". After all, you just can't trust those wily Serbs, right? Do you even have any inkling of how blinded you are by your own prejudices?

asking me to disprove the negative (i.e., that tests conclusively showed there wasn't GSR on the victim's hands) isn't an option.

And I didn't ask you to either. Not that that's not a bad idea, though, because you really got a hell of a lot of nerve accusing me of making statements that I can't back up, when you announced your presence on this thread with the highly inflammatory statement that Serbia deserved to be bombed, which we're still waiting for you to back up. Several pretentious link-laden replies later, you still haven't been able to do that. Yet we've given you plenty of evidence even beyond gunpowder residues that the KLA version of events was false or at least highly suspect:

- the fact that no one can seem to account for the absence of women and children at the scene; - the fact that the subjects were wearing several layers of clothing works against the claim that they were dragged from their homes; - the fact that there were absolutely no pre-mortem injuries to the subjects contradicts claims that they were beaten and tortured prior to being "massacred"; - the fact that there were no signs that they were shot "execution-style"; - the fact that there was fighting going on with the KLA in the area at the time makes it hard to believe that the Serbs rounded up all these people and gunned them down, while under heavy fire from the KLA; - and of course the fact that the KLA refused access to the area by anyone for more than 24 hours after the fighting ceased speaks for itself.

[The Big Dog]

I don't understand you. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? What is the point you are trying to make?

[Hoplite]

Page 6523

6 Q. And were you there when the paraffin glove was taken off the
7 bodies in Racak?
8 A. I was present, sir, yes.

C'mon, inquest, just one simple fact is under consideration here - whether the Serbs and Byelorussians performed a Paraffin test on the Racak victims.

Are both Milosevic and Hendrie lying in this exchange?

They have to be in order to support Dobricanin's statements on the matter.

Well?

[smokegenerator]

the point is you are middle of the road and "right-on" with your claiming that media sources can not be fully embraced. I agree, but Hoplite doesnt see it that way.

Why should I believe the Pro-UN/NATO sites over the Pro-Serbian sites? That is the question that needs answering. I went there as a neutral tourist to see for myself who is lying, or, more importantly, who is telling less lies and more truths. I came back seeing firsthand the Serbs were more honest in the media war, but more "rough" out in the field.

I also tend to agree with the "Aggressive Defensive Posture" the Serb Defense Forces undertook. Considering the overwhelming odds stacked against them. You will not hear that the Serb military outside of Sarajevo was outnumbered 10:1 in numerical terms. Which explains their pounding Muslim attackes and probes with such ferocity. They also do not tell you that the Muslims were recieving fresh supply of heavy weapon munitions, etc... daily.

Each month, they were becoming stronger and their probes were more coordinated. Forcing the Serbs to counter with heavier retaliation against all fortifications. Even the ones concentrated within the Sarajevo hospital, my friend.

[inquest]

"And were you there when the paraffin glove was taken off the bodies in Racak?"

You are aware of course that the autopsies were performed in Pristina, not Racak? If somebody on the team performed a preliminary on-site paraffin test, and if, as Hendrie testifies, he wasn't even aware of the results, despite the fact that he expressed interest in knowing what they were, then I would conclude that the team probably did not include that test as part of their official investigation.

[vooch]

Ranta is a dentist. Her Finnish collegues were so embarassed by her lack of professionalism that they kicked her off the team when they got home. The Final and Complete Forensic Report was NOT written by Ranta.

[Hoplite]

If somebody on the team performed a preliminary on-site paraffin test

Well...

"We are aware of the limits of the diphenylamine method, which Helena Ranta referred to in her statement as the paraffin test, but such a high percentage of positive reaction established (37 out of 40), especially considering the fact that it was the time of the year when fertilizers are not used, makes the method highly reliable," the statement said.
That would be the statement of the Yugoslav forensic team, btw.

So what is this diphenylamine method of which they speak? Surprise, surprise, it's the Paraffin test.

Gunshot holes or wounds usually fall into one of three categories: close range; distant; or contact. Distant shots are the most problematic. One of the oldest tests (1933) in existence was called the paraffin test, or dermal nitrate test. It was designed to check for residue on the hands (from the blown-back cloud-like formation). The suspect's hands were coated with paraffin or wax, and then the paraffin was tested with diphenylamine. If the wax turned blue, it indicated nitrates were present. Nitrates are the most common unburnt part of gunpowder residue. Unfortunately, the test fell out of popularity over the years because urine, tobacco, fertilizer, cosmetics, and other substances on the hands also yielded a blue color.  Modern tests for hand residue look for primer substances such as barium on the thumbs and bullet-alloy substances such as antimony on the fingers. source

So Dr. Dobricanin and his team used the Paraffin method, and any attempts to assert otherwise are merely more lies.

Furthermore, they make the ridiculous assertion that the tests are validated by the results - a logical error that would make professional scientists in any field wary of the author's credentials or fealty to the scientific method.

Now then, are we clear on this matter of the Paraffin test and whether claims that the dead had gunpowder residue on their hands or arms are based on good forensic work or are merely more Serb Nationalist lies that fall apart as soon as one starts looking into the matter?

If this doesn't connect all the dots for you, Inquest, feel free to find something, anything supportive of the Serbs/Byelorussians using a test other than the Parrafin, er, diphenylamine method.

[inquest]

You're talking about two different aspects of GSR detection: retrieval of the samples (paraffin) and testing of the samples (diphenylamine). That they used the latter does not imply that they used the former, and according to your second link at Post 54, Dr. Dobricanin's team insisted they didn't use paraffin to retrieve the samples, but rather "they used a foil followed by a chemical analysis [which would be the diphenylamine that you referred to] of the contents on the foil." Dr. Ranta's criticism of the paraffin test was that it "lacks specifity", presumably referring to the fact that, as your link to the NCWC lecture describes, the paraffin test relies simply upon the paraffin changing color. I'm gathering that the analysis conducted by the Serbian team was a bit more quantifiable.

Furthermore, they make the ridiculous assertion that the tests are validated by the results - a logical error that would make professional scientists in any field wary of the author's credentials or fealty to the scientific method.

What would be the percentage of positive results on any random group of subjects, using the test that they used? What's the standard deviation? If a 92% positive rate lies significantly outside of that standard deviation, then there's nothing scientifically invalid about concluding that there's likely an unusually high concentration of whatever it is they're looking for.

Now I know that the test was limited to nitrates, and that nitrates are found in cigarette smoke residue and a few other sources. But if I were conducting the test (and I'm by no means an expert), my first instinct would be to get a baseline nitrate level from various other parts of the body, before testing the hands and fingers. This would be difficult with paraffin, because either it turns blue or it doesn't; but with a more precise method of analysis it should be possible. Did the Serbian team use those precautions? We have no way of knowing without looking at their actual results. But seeing as how, aside from Dr. Ranta's cryptic paraffin remark, the Serbian and Belarussian teams were reported by all hands to have been very professional in their attitudes and methods, I'm not going to impute such carelessness to them without some solid evidence to suggest that.

[Fusion]

I haven't read the Emperor's Clothing article but Joan's basic premise is correct. The OPTOR operation run by that classic post-modern rock and roller Ellen Yount -- through the US embassy in Zagreb. Few American covert operations have paid such huge dividends in recent years. Many of the Zagreb NOC from that operation have moved on to the "war on terror" but you can still find a few of the same embassy staff who have filtered over to Belgrade on the "Commercial" side.

While such tactics worked far beyond expectations to crush Milosevic with a final dagger to the heart, they are finding little success in the current battles versus the Islamic Entente. In fact the West, with the exception of Britain, being absolutely crushed now at the line of scrimmage in the current war.

Just as the Kosovo Liberation Army juxtaposed the Racak "massacre," with Langley fallout from the disasterous MI6 Prishtina op the previous December, to establish a new political dynamic -- the Islamic Entente prepares to capitalise on their triumphant first phase of the current Eastern stretch and break attack.

Langley caught in the most delicate of predicaments as Racak increased its geopolitical momentum in the days following the "massacre" discovery. While the set-up and execution of the phony massacre was almost letter perfect, it was clear that the followup "investigation" would be unable to sustain credibility past the most cursory of examinations.

Langley wisely decided to passthrough the flawed "truth" to the administration. Why be concerned about political fallout past the ever shrinking window of focus in pre-Y2K international affairs? Who really cared if American covert assistance (creation actually) to/of OPTOR was a critical component in collapsing the Milosevic government? After all, the plan worked...

Just as Black Islamic Front snipers "stretched" East coast American law enforcement to a state of near collapse for several weeks before finally surrendering, low-level Islamic Entente operatives have increasingly permitted themselves to show on the American law-enforcement radar in a surveillance mode. These classic mis-direction operations have created exponential pressure on US Homeland Defence structures. Tens of thousands of federal, state, and local law-enforcement officals are racking up weeks and weeks of unproductive and inefficient hours in fruitless and frustrating wild goose chases.

The recent "alerts" that have paralysed much of the populace are merely a bonus to the Islamic Entente. Their primary objective is to physically, mentally, and emotionally wear out the US intelligence community -- while leading them away from the true targets of the next attack.

The current OPTOR "equivalent" being run by Langley against the Islamic Entente the source of much of this intelligence "haul." The same situation exists as at Racak but this time the roles are reversed. Now it is Britain that smells a rat and is bitterly complaining that US intelligence is being fooled. Langley shutting the Brit cries out on this one and continues to plunge ahead convinced they have the gold seam that will lead them to Bin Laden.

The post-mortem of the current Islamic Entente shell game will receive much more attention than Racak because the resulting war will be much bigger and significant than the KLA's 78 day romp from the air. Bravo to the Brits for sticking to their guns -- the Oxford Dons once again showing that good old-fashioned HUMINT ops will beat the high tech American way nine times out of ten...

One out of ten not good odds for the Western defence. The Islamic Entente continues to "stretch" the opposition -- when the "break" operation is executed there will be plenty of experts looking for the safety of CYA mode...

Those that survive of course...

The forces of freedom on the move. Europe trembles.

[smokegenerator]

So, what you are implying is the "offense" is counting on the "defense" to "overpursue" and be lit up with a screen pass, correct, Fusion?

offense=islam
defense=the infadels(?), correct?...

Srpska Vatra
eyes of Srbija

[inquest]

One other thing I should mention: After scouring the Net using various seach parameters, I could not find a single reference to any official communication from the OSCE, any of its member governments (or indeed any government or intergovernmental organization at all), or any professional forensics association, that criticizes the Serbian and Belarussian teams for allegedly employing the paraffin test or for any other imputed deficiency in their methods and analysis in the Racak case. Not even the Clinton adminstration, whose credibilty (such as it was) presumably was at stake, seemed to have anything to say about their report. This to me is most fascinating.

[FireWall]

You must forgive Hoplite, his biggotry speaks louder than he does.

[Hoplite]

Cripes.

Diphenylamine is the reagent in the "Paraffin" tests. Regardless of whether paraffin was used or not, diphenylamine has been discredited as a reagent due to a lack of specificity.

The Serbs and Byelorussians used diphenylamine in their testing of the Racak victims.

Ergo, their GSR testing of the Racak victims is only as good as diphenylamine, which has been discredited as a reagent.

Ergo, statements eminating from the Serb and Byelorussian team about 37 of 40 of the Racak victims having GSR on their hands/arms are only as credible as their testing, which used diphenylamine, which has been discredited as a reagent.

Should I use larger letters or something?