Atheist says he's been booted from Boy Scouts

USA TODAY | 11/04/02 | AP

[kattracks]

SEATTLE (AP) — An Eagle Scout who has earned 37 merit badges said Monday he has been kicked out of the Boy Scouts for refusing to declare a belief in a higher power. Darrell Lambert said he was told of the decision earlier in the day by the Chief Seattle Council, the Scouts' regional governing body.

"Am I bitter? No. Disappointed? Yeah," he said. "We're in the 21st century. Our country was founded on religious freedom, and the Boy Scouts of America are still discriminating."

Lambert said he plans to appeal the decision within the Scouting council within the required 60 days.

On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize a higher power, although not necessarily a religious one.

As a private organization, the Boy Scouts can bar anyone it chooses from membership. The organization's ban on gay leaders was upheld by the Supreme Court in 2000.

The issue arose about a month ago, after Lambert attended a Boy Scout leadership training seminar where he argued with a Scout leader about whether atheists should be expelled from the organization.

Last week, the council said it would give him about a week to declare his belief in a higher power. Lambert refused, saying that to lie would make him a bad Scout.

The Irving, Texas-based Boy Scouts of America did not return calls seeking comment Monday.

Lambert, 19, said he has been an atheist since ninth grade, when he concluded that science had disproved the accounts of creation given in the Bible.

He had declared his atheism to the Scout leaders overseeing his Eagle Scout application last year, but was still granted the award.

"They commended me on my honesty," he said.

His mother told CNN that no one in their family attends church, and that her husband is also an atheist.

"Darrell's not just fighting this for himself. He's fighting this for all the Scouts that have no real belief in God," Trish Lambert said.

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Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

[yendu bwam]

Yes, it was well worth it to have my sons in Scouting.

Scouts was a super organization for me, and it's a super organization for my two sons. They are growing into good young men, in part as a result of their membership in scouts.

[XJarhead]

The standards are so broad that a Scout can believe any religion -- even one fundamentally at odds with a Judeo-Christian one -- and still be a Scout in good standing. Doesn't sound too exclusive to me.

That's a fair point.

[yendu bwam]

The girl scouts are a very different organization from the BSA. They also do not have any policies against lesbians/gays in leadership positions.

The Girl Scouts is an organization which will affirm committed atheists, girls who get abortions, girls who get abortions without telling their parents, girls who want to engage in lesbian sex, group sex or bi-sex, girls who do not think it's necessary to get married before having children, and girls who believe morality is relative.

[yendu bwam]

This is not like the gay issue. This one is going to give the liberals something to start hacking away.

Anyone or any group which believes that some beliefs or behaviors are fundamentally better than others will get hacked by liberals. Guess we should just all give up our beliefs rather than fight for them...

[yendu bwam]

First off, I stand corrected on the Scouting for All. I was under the impression that it was an alternative scouting group. That being said, I'm not vitriolic. I've said before that I believe the Scouts should be able to set their own standards for membership. That being said, I think their decision he is silly. The standards are so broad that a Scout can believe any religion -- even one fundamentally at odds with a Judeo-Christian one -- and still be a Scout in good standing. Doesn't sound too exclusive to me.

Well, Emmylou, I'm glad! There is a fundamental difference between atheism and almost all religious belief. Almost all religions believe that morality is something that comes to us from a higher or greater power. Atheists do not - and can thus establish any morality they want in life. Scouts, I believe, does not want to accede to this idea - that morality is whatever we want it to be. And on the last point, you're right! Scouts is not very exclusive. It is for boys (though it's been sued by girls several times who wanted to join), it's for believers in God or a higher power, and it believes that it's inappropriate for homosexual men to take others people's sons out on overnight camping trips. That leaves most of all boys in our nation eligible for membership. In general, it's an extremely inclusive organization.

[yendu bwam]

To me, that's part of what scouts should be all about: positive male role models.

You bet.

[yendu bwam]

True, but his honesty has not been called into question. There is no allegation that he has lied. He's been quite open about it. He admitted in his application to be an Eagle Scout that he was an atheist and they still gave it to him.

No, but it's quite obvious that he had. He was an atheist since early high school, and until he got his Eagle badge he stood there and said the Boy Scout Oath on a regular basis. That IS lying. In a good thing for him, he had the honor and courage by the time he got to eagle to stand up for what he believed in (rather than to lie). That's good. He should have been honest from the beginning. But far better to be honest late than never.

[BikerNYC]

By the way, if this is so important, how did he get that Eagle Scout badge?

[yendu bwam]

By the way, if this is so important, how did he get that Eagle Scout badge?

By earning his badges. But he did so in a fundamentally dishonest and dishonorable way - by affirming a belief in God for several years while in fact he did not have that belief. I could go to a Catholic Church, say I was Catholic, and asked to be confirmed. I could say that I believe in God and Catholic doctrine, go through all the confirmation classes and get confirmed. That would also be fundamentally dishonest and dishonorable.

[BikerNYC]

But the article says:

He had declared his atheism to the Scout leaders overseeing his Eagle Scout application last year, but was still granted the award.

It seems that the local folks who know him thought him worthy of the honor, but the big-wigs had second thoughts.

[hattend]

he doesnt have to ...if doesnt believe in god the he doesnt it dont mean he should be kicked out of the scouts..i mean what.just cuz he dont believe all of a sudden that makes him a threat? i dont think so

What?

[yendu bwam]

It seems that the local folks who know him thought him worthy of the honor, but the big-wigs had second thoughts.

Yeah, you're right. But the national policy has been very clear for years.

[Dataman]

Our country was founded on religious freedom

If the whiner can't reason, thank your public schools.

[BibChr]

LOL; amen!

[Deb]

"...he may have deeper issues."

...or a father who's an attorney.

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Why would he want to be part of a faith-based organization anyway??

[MedicalMess]

Oh good... everyone shut up for a couple of hours.

The religious fanatics are soooooooo scared that one little atheist will be the death of their whole organization. They're entire religious premise is soooooooo shakey that one little atheist asking the right questions might cause their whole stack of cards to crumble.

Better not let that one atheist in or all h*ll will break loose and the sh*t will hit the fan.

And as for the BSA policy regarding respect for others religious beliefs and the sharing of those beliefs...

I guess that earlier posting was a complete lie. All the posts here prove that. These posts are the proof of their intolerance. Now you know why I kept my mouth shut on this subject when I was in the scouts 30 years ago.

If you say the wrong thing to the wrong person in the BSA it's the highway for you. Many of these people are leaders that have let power go to their head. You can also be threatened by the leaders sons or personal pets. There is a pecking order in the BSA.

We had an entire patrol dedicated to beating up all the other patrols in the troop. The leaders ignored it for two years and multiple assaults on other scouts. They thought it was just a case of boys being boys. I had gotten punched a few times and seen others seriously hurt. Finally I had enough and one of these clowns tried another attack, I bent over, picked up a rock, and smashed the side of his head opening it wide ready for seven stitches to close.

I had to outrun the whole gang of thugs up a mountainside to keep from being badly beaten. I then had to get one of my friends to wear my red Boy Scout jacket to decoy the gang away from me to chase him for another mile in the wrong direction. After being able to get to a more responsible leader and with the help of many witnesses we were able to put a stop to this crap.

The kids that were attacking us were God fearing Catholic boys from upper-middle-class private country club community of Packanack Lake, Wayne Township, Passaic County, New Jersey, Troop 104. Check out the community at Packanacklake.com. Our community was sooooo intolerant of others... forget about it... Blacks... forget about it, Italians... forget about it. WASPs only!

You said the wrong thing about your views on religion versus the gang of Catholics, and you're a Protestant...
forget about it... you got punched.

That's your BSA tolerance of religion. Pardon if I don't accept your peoples views on religion and tolerance in the BSA. All of us just wanted to have a good time and learn some skills. We didn't need your religious rejects thrown at us. They all eventually left. Most of them became pot smokers and low achievers. Some of the goons became high school dropouts.

Once the religious rejects left the troop things got much better and religion was no longer a tool for terror within our troop.

[MetalHeadConservative35]

death/satanic" jerkoffs, here at FR, all seem to have the intelligence of a retarded second grader?

death satanic jerkoff? by chance do you know me outside of FR or do you just think that cuz i dissagreed with the kid being kicked out

[handk]

It's your "handle," deathcythex.