Posted on 11/05/2002 12:27:48 AM PST by kattracks
SEATTLE (AP) — An Eagle Scout who has earned 37 merit badges said Monday he has been kicked out of the Boy Scouts for refusing to declare a belief in a higher power. Darrell Lambert said he was told of the decision earlier in the day by the Chief Seattle Council, the Scouts' regional governing body.
"Am I bitter? No. Disappointed? Yeah," he said. "We're in the 21st century. Our country was founded on religious freedom, and the Boy Scouts of America are still discriminating."
Lambert said he plans to appeal the decision within the Scouting council within the required 60 days.
On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize a higher power, although not necessarily a religious one.
As a private organization, the Boy Scouts can bar anyone it chooses from membership. The organization's ban on gay leaders was upheld by the Supreme Court in 2000.
The issue arose about a month ago, after Lambert attended a Boy Scout leadership training seminar where he argued with a Scout leader about whether atheists should be expelled from the organization.
Last week, the council said it would give him about a week to declare his belief in a higher power. Lambert refused, saying that to lie would make him a bad Scout.
The Irving, Texas-based Boy Scouts of America did not return calls seeking comment Monday.
Lambert, 19, said he has been an atheist since ninth grade, when he concluded that science had disproved the accounts of creation given in the Bible.
He had declared his atheism to the Scout leaders overseeing his Eagle Scout application last year, but was still granted the award.
"They commended me on my honesty," he said.
His mother told CNN that no one in their family attends church, and that her husband is also an atheist.
"Darrell's not just fighting this for himself. He's fighting this for all the Scouts that have no real belief in God," Trish Lambert said.
Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Would it be anti-Christian to remove a Sunday school teacher who confessed publicly that he did not believe in the existence of God?
It was ANTI-AMERICAN.
Uh, its anti-American for an organization to remove someone from a leadership position because he publicly disagrees with a fundamental tenet of the organization? Remember, this kid isn't some 11 year old just getting a start in Scouting. He's in a leadership position and supposed to be teaching youger Scouts about the principles of Scouting. How can he possibly do that when we fundamentally disagrees with one of its basic tenets? That's just bizarre.
To me, that's part of what scouts should be all about: positive male role models.
Yup ... and religious freedom by a PRIVATE organization has the right to "discriminate" against those who violate their rules. GET USED TO IT! Go ahead and "discriminate" against those who chose to believe. What an illogical person this is.
Me too! Looks like another closet liberal stamping his feet for attention. Maybe he needs to be more "discriminating" in what organization he joins and what their credo is.
"By the way, his mother was Scoutmaster for the while that he was working on his Eagle" - This fact alone should set off the warning bells at the BSA Council, District and National headquarters. Women can hold auxillary roles in Boy Scout troops and not leadership positions. We are talking about the Boy Scouts for crying out loud.
Why his mother, of all people, was running a Boy Scout Troop and reviewing her own son's progress towards Eagle Scout escapes my comprehension. She cannot serve as a male role model and she is setting the example that it is OK to break the rules regarding the roles of females in the Boys Scouts. If she were male, there would be a conflict of interest at the very least to have her serving on rank reviews prior to Eagle. I have been in a troop where the Scoutmaster stepped down when his son at 1st Class rank, so one could say that his son's future scouting accomplishments were his very own. This scoutmaster was setting an example.
jriemer
Eagle Scout, Class of 1984 - Silver Palm
Assistant Scout Master, Order of the Arrow, God and Country Award
This is from the BSA's website:
To Do My Duty To God: Our nation is founded on showing reverence to a higher faith. In these words, the Scout promises to recognize, to honor and to respect his religious faith. And in the Boys Scouts of America, he is given an opportunity to grow in that faith and to respect the beliefs of others.Perhaps you have some different reference?
Putting a few atheists in scouting will not change their code of conduct. There are atheists there now but they are not allowed to voice their views because of the oppressive constraints. Also scouting is really a one of program. And ones views on a matter does not prevent them from teaching other view points. And I would never presume that any of my scoutmasters were even the slightest resemblance to a pastor.
I got an idea! Let's get you and a bunch of Islamic terrorists together. They love God. They even kill for God. They would even kill you and your kids. But they believe in God and that makes them better than that awefull atheist. Should get you guys all together in a gym armed with knives. Which would you rather associate with? The intelligent 37 badge kid atheist with character or a bunch of ignorant knife wielding ready to die for God terrorists. Since your only distinction is belief in GOD you favor terrorists.
This is not like the gay issue. This one is going to give the liberals something to start hacking away. God is only part of scouting. Character building is the end goal... not religious indoctrination. We have churches and other cults for that. I prefer character building over cult worship.
God is fundamentally irrelevant to character building and religious worship is a behavior I don't engage in. No return on investment.
Good one!!!!!!!!
The Boy Scouts of America have always required that a scout have some sort of religious focus. Scouts must believe in something -- God(s), a rock, Zoroaster, Johnny Cash or Satan. The list of currently available Boy Scouts of America religious awards (they're not all Christian, Jewish, or even Muslim): http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?c=xm.
Because the BSA is built on a system of laws, thus the Scout Law and Oath, and you cannot build on top of nothing; thus, any belief other than nihilism or atheism is considered acceptable. I would think that the BSA has absolutely no problem with a Scout worshipping God, a rock, Zoroaster or Johnny Cash; however, Satan runs afoul of the "morally straight" requirement of the Scout Oath. For that reason, Scouts worshipping Satan would be discouraged for scouters.
What a scout chooses to do as an adult -- and thus, "out" of the system -- would be fair game. Yes, Lambert knew that going prior to signing up for adult leadership, or had to have been aware of it at some point in his years with the BSA as a scout.
Because the Scouts come with their own bylaws for moral behavior -- which, btw, are supported at the core of most world religions -- the more generic ones which don't (such as the mother nature clause) get a boost.
jriemer
Eagle Scout - Class of 1984, Silver Palm
That being said, I fully agree with you that only men should serve as scoutmasters except in the direst of circumstances. Parents should walk over broken glass to find competent dads to lead their sons' troops. As the boys get older they absolutely NEED those adult male role models!
I have to tell you a little story. I was Den mom for my older son. When he moved up to the troop, I graciously offered my help to the Scoutmaster. I figured, hey, I'm safe. I can offer to help, and they won't accept it. :-) Boy was I wrong! I then served a dozen years as the recordkeeper for the troop as my two sons moved through the ranks to Eagle. As you probably know, a good recordkeeper is pretty important for most troops. I was glad to do it, but it sure taught me a lesson. Don't offer to help if you don't mean it. ;-)
Code of conduct? Is that something they've added in the time since I was a Scout? Anyway, putting avowed atheists in leadership positions won't eliminate other aspects of scouting. But it pretty much wipes out the religious component.
I got an idea! Let's get you and a bunch of Islamic terrorists together. They love God. They even kill for God. They would even kill you and your kids. But they believe in God and that makes them better than that awefull atheist.
Can you get any more shrill? Sheesh. I never said that this wasn't a great guy (not a kid at age 19) who could serve as a positive role model for kids. As far as I can see, nobody else condemned this guy simply because he was an atheist. What we have said is that its inappropriate for an avowed atheist to have a leadership position in an organization that has religious belief as one of its primary tenets. That's hardly the extremist position you make it out to be.
But since you want to equate our desire to ban this atheist from Scouting with a preference for Islamic terrorists, I believe you earlier stated your support for banning homosexuals from Scouting. So, you obviously have this tremendous hatred for homosexuals, and would greatly prefer Islamic terrorists to someone who happens to be gay. Right? Yeah, and since we want to kill Islamic terrorists, that obviously means that you want to murder all gays as well. Right?
Hyperbole cuts both ways.
God is only part of scouting.
Absolutely true. Glad to see you admit that it is a part of Scouting. And as a part of Scouting, a leader who is supposed to teach Scouting to younger scouts but is an avowed, public atheist is either a hypocrite, or undermining one of the elements of Scouting.
Maybe Scouting would be better off if it had no religious component at all. But that is a separate debate. Since Scouting as it currently exists does have a religious component, the BSA is fully justified in having leaders who do not publicly disagree with that tenet.
No, I am afraid you are wrong. The Scout Oath says God and it means God. Perhaps you are aware of the case of Elliot Welsh and his son in the Chicago area a few years ago. They claimed to be agnostic and were denied membership. That case got all the way to the US Supreme Court. The Unitarian Universalist Association was also removed as an approved BSA religious organization because it does not require a belief in God.
The girl scouts are a very different organization from the BSA. They also do not have any policies against lesbians/gays in leadership positions.
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