Posted on 11/05/2002 12:27:48 AM PST by kattracks
SEATTLE (AP) — An Eagle Scout who has earned 37 merit badges said Monday he has been kicked out of the Boy Scouts for refusing to declare a belief in a higher power. Darrell Lambert said he was told of the decision earlier in the day by the Chief Seattle Council, the Scouts' regional governing body.
"Am I bitter? No. Disappointed? Yeah," he said. "We're in the 21st century. Our country was founded on religious freedom, and the Boy Scouts of America are still discriminating."
Lambert said he plans to appeal the decision within the Scouting council within the required 60 days.
On membership applications, Boy Scouts and adult leaders must say they recognize a higher power, although not necessarily a religious one.
As a private organization, the Boy Scouts can bar anyone it chooses from membership. The organization's ban on gay leaders was upheld by the Supreme Court in 2000.
The issue arose about a month ago, after Lambert attended a Boy Scout leadership training seminar where he argued with a Scout leader about whether atheists should be expelled from the organization.
Last week, the council said it would give him about a week to declare his belief in a higher power. Lambert refused, saying that to lie would make him a bad Scout.
The Irving, Texas-based Boy Scouts of America did not return calls seeking comment Monday.
Lambert, 19, said he has been an atheist since ninth grade, when he concluded that science had disproved the accounts of creation given in the Bible.
He had declared his atheism to the Scout leaders overseeing his Eagle Scout application last year, but was still granted the award.
"They commended me on my honesty," he said.
His mother told CNN that no one in their family attends church, and that her husband is also an atheist.
"Darrell's not just fighting this for himself. He's fighting this for all the Scouts that have no real belief in God," Trish Lambert said.
Copyright 2002 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.
Well, Jesus told us that the greatest commandment of all is "to love the Lord our God with all our heart and mind and soul." You'll notice that none of Jesus' apostles were atheists. I'm just speculating (of course), but my honest guess is that if Jesus met an atheist, He would say something like: "Hey, you're rejecting the whole reason of your existence, the great power that seeks to help you through His love, and you're rejecting the right behavior that my Father has set down for you. Don't damage yourself this way, and thus endanger your salvation. Go and think about what I've said. I and my Father are always here for you if you can open your heart and soul and mind to us."
It is actually (for a Christian) an act of deep love (and often courage) to say to an atheist that: "Hey, you're on the wrong track - and you're hurting yourself." It is an act of non-love to say to an atheist: "Hey, if you don't believe in God, that makes no difference." Christians don't believe that. - It's like meeting a teenager who rejects the love of his (real) father. It would be an act of love to say to the teen: "Hey, you're hurting yourself to reject your father's love for you, and what your father tells you to do out of that love." it would be an act of non-love to say to the teen: "Hey, forget about your father and the love he has for you."
The Scout-in-question was on O'Reilly last week, and I have a hunch that there is more to this story than just the oath to God. Anyone else see this egment on O'Reilly?
Atheism is fundamentally different from Christianity or Judaism, or most all of the world's religions. Christianity and Judaism posit moral truths that come from outside of us. Atheists can make up and follow whatever morality they want.
The scouts is far more concerned with right thinking than with popular thinking. But actually, it's still growing anyway after the last two years of vitriolic attacks from homosexuals and atheists. In our town, it's doubled in size in the last three years. We now have four strong and growing troops in our town.
Please...
Actually, on the whole, America is far more Republican than it has been in the past.
But MedicalMess also says: "I was, and still am, not convinced of a higher being or order in the universe."
Let's see, first you obtain the God and Country award while you were a Boy Scout and while pledging a weekly oath of honor to God and Country. And you also maintain that while you did this, you were "not convinced" that there was a God. Sure sounds to me you like you were lying, deceitful, dishonorable and got your God and Country award under false pretenses. But then maybe it depends on how you define lying.
MedicalMess protests: "Just because my view of God is not the same as yours does not make me dishonorable and deceitful person."
I was not condemning you for your views, I was condemning you for spending so much of your life lying to those that trusted you about those views by pledging on your honor that you'd do your duty to God and Country. It was the lack of integrity character and honor, not your views.
MedicalMess charges: "the Scouts are not suppose to be a pseudo-nazi organization which passes judgement on peoples personal relationship with God."
So now demanding that scouts not bear false witness or that they must adhere to the organizations rules is tantamount to being a Nazi? Pretty sick reasoning.
MedicalMess asks: "You aren't by chance a Democrat are you? Because you certainly are a first class JACKASS."
Sorry MedicalMess, but your autobiography has to be posted under "vanities".
--Boot Hill
What you say is partly true, MedicalMess - but that isn't the issue. The issue is that scouts believes that a belief in God is a fundamental part of raising young men of a particular sort. That doesn't mean that all young men turn out the way scouts hopes they will. But scouts believe that on the whole, a belief in God is essential to that process and that it helps a great many young men to become adult men. You may not share that belief. That's OK. Then scouts wouldn't be for you. Scouts is entitled to its beliefs, just like you are to yours. That is the essence of tolerance and religious freedom.
Hey I'm all for scouting but this was a bad decision that is only going to hurt the scouting program. If I went by all 12 points of what a scout is suppose to be, and REVERENT is just one of them, then I could find a reason to throw every scout applicant out.
AS AN EXAMPLE: If I find that any Scout bought a new car I could throw them out of scouting for taking the high depreciation on a new vehicle. The cost of dollars paid for miles driven is higher in a new car than a low-milage used car. Therefore the scout that buys a new car is NOT THRIFTY. Your outta there buddy.
Didn't get to a meeting on time... You're not TRUSTWORTHY.
Don't go along with all my views and back me up...? You're not LOYAL.
Aren't around whenever I need you... Not HELPFUL.
Having a bad day... crouchy?... Not FRIENDLY
Don't tip your hat to all the ladies?... Not COURTEOUS
Had to downsize and lay people off?.... Not KIND
Don't do what everyone else wants?... Not OBEDIENT
Are you CHEERFUL all the time?
Are you BRAVE all the time? And who defines what is brave and what is stupid?
Do you curse? Do you work in dirty surroundings? Then you are not CLEAN.
You people are calling me a liberal and falling into the trap when you people don't realize that you are the ones alienating scouting. There are some battles that you will fight to win only to lose the war to other factors. This is a battle not worthy of fighting. It will do more harm than good!
Want to fight the homosexuals? That is a fight worth fighting because that involves physical assault.
But this fight is not worth it.
Anyone else think that fathers/men should be scoutmasters, by time a scout is at the Eagle level?
Reminds me of the movie the Best Little Whorehouse in Texas and that song the Governor sings: "The side step", where he brags about fooling the voters by dancing around the truth.
--Boot Hill
Scouts occasionally accept female scoutmaster, when suitable men can't be found. But I agree - every effort should be made to find such men to lead troops.
Why is it that you "death/satanic" jerkoffs, here at FR, all seem to have the intelligence of a retarded second grader? Is there some connection?
If the kid has the right to reject Christ, why do the scouts not have the same right to reject the kid?
No, MedicalMess. They're not the same. Being clean or obedient, etc. are behaviors. A belief in God is a fundamental belief. Boy Scouts take an oath to do their duty to God. They can't do that if they don't believe in God. - And actually, we've had cases where kids are thrown out for behaviors that contravene the scout law.
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