"I think, therefore I exist" -- Rene Descartes

Philosophy, An introduction to the Art of Wondering - Sixth Edition -- pages 36/37 | 1994 | James L. Christian

[thinktwice]

The context of post 15 involved the post 12 statement that ... Thought/intelligence could originate from our Source and just be manifested through us.

to which I replied .... Why would an all-knowing God send us out ... so poorly equipped?

And now, you ask ...Oh? Are we equipped to do something? If so, what might that something be?

It was my thought that -- being created in the image of God -- that we're only slightly better than animals (we have reason and souls, lesser animals don't), and that human beings were left short in the God-given ability department.

[eastsider]

The Catholic position is that the human person is body/soul. Each have different powers yet are fully united.

Between death and resurrection of the body, when our souls separate from our bodies and our bodies corrupt, are we still human persons?

[Bounceback]

Rene Descartes walks into a bar.

"Hi, Rene," says the bartender, "what'll it be this afternoon, your usual?"

"I think not," says Rene Descartes ... and disappears.

[rightwingreligiousfanatic]

I post, therefore I ping.

I ping, therefore I post.

I'm pissed, therefore I FReep.

[cornelis]

"the most famous phrase . . ."

I wonder why they didn't pick this one: "Good sense is the most evenly distributed commodity in the world." (He should have said, existence)

[thinktwice]

"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute."

To which you write ... Now look at Bill Clinton and the Democratic party. "Heroic"? No way. Focused on happiness I'll giver her...

Bill Clinton and the Democratic party would disgust Ayn Rand, perhaps more so than they disgust Christians because Christians would offer forgiveness to Clinton and Clinton supporters.

Regarding happiness as being a proper goal for ethics, I would refer you not only to Rand's Objectivist ethics, but to Aristotle and eudaemonism.

[RightWhale]

we're only slightly better than animals . . . we have reason

Armed with that insignificant ability, what else do we need beyond animal abilities to discover and perhaps complete our purpose?

[eastsider]

Christians would offer forgiveness to Clinton and Clinton supporters.

Yeah, after we torched 'em ... : )

[cornelis]

"All of this caused me to feel free to judge everybody else by myself" --Descartes.

(Ah, that damned arrogance. Or, I'm mad at God, therefore I'm mad at Descartes)

[discostu]

You misunderstand. The quote you provided gave a nice succinct definition of how Rand saw people, the actions of Billy and the Dems shows that's not how people are, at least not a rather significant percentage of them. If that's the foundation point for all her other stuff then much of it just won't cut it out here in the real and gritty world. It would be nice if it did, it would be great if her view of people was accurate, but it's not.

As for happiness and ethics what I was saying was that how Dems define their own happiness isn't really ethical. Unless you've got some new exciting definition of the word that includes getting BJs from interns while sending troops to their possible death. I'm not saying that seeking happiness is innately unethical, just that what makes some people happy is distinctly unethical.

[thinktwice]

In post 98 you wrote ... Well, I have read about ten of her (Ayn Rand's) books.

Well, you've never read Rand's "Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology" because -- in that work -- she improves substantially upon Aristotle's work, and what you seem to have learned from Aristotle can be found in Rand's epistemology.

[HIDEK6]

Sorry, I posted before I started reading the answers:(.

[thinktwice]

what else do we need beyond animal abilities to discover and perhaps complete our purpose?

What is our purpose?

[eastsider]

What is our purpose?

To know, love and serve God in this world, and to be happy with him forever in heaven. (Baltimore Catechism; sometime last century; Question #2, as I recall : )

[RightWhale]

What is our purpose?

We're supposed to search the heavens for portents and also name the creatures, and a couple of other things. Maybe that's enough, and we sure aren't done at this time.

[thinktwice]

If that's the foundation point for all her other stuff then much of it just won't cut it out here in the real and gritty world. It would be nice if it did, it would be great if her view of people was accurate, but it's not.

Ayn Rand's ideal human is the heroic human with a disciplined (that means using reason) mind. Rand's unideal person is the depraved human, one that follows without leading, one that parrots others without thinking, one that takes without achieving.

So you're right, Rand's stuff won't cut it with most people, especially that 43% of Americans voting for evil in every election.

[thinktwice]

Regarding "our purpose."

Catechisms aside, I think our purpose is to use our God-given assets to the best of our abilities, and that -- assuming there is a Heaven, Hell or Hades (ref. Homer's Odysseus) -- the questions at the gate will be ... "What where your achievements?" and "What did you do with the gift (reason) I gave you?"

[savedbygrace]

Since there are no givens, you have to have at least one argument before the conclusion. I think.

But I was jest havin' fun. Now you've got me thinking seriously.

[eastsider]

[T]he questions at the gate will be ... "What where your achievements?" and "What did you do with the gift (reason) I gave you?"

Can one determine here on earth whether what one does with the gift(s) one is given deserves eternal reward or punishment? Or does one have to wait for the end game to find out?

[RightWhale]

the questions at the gate

Some consider to build a house, to write a book, and to pass on the genome to the next generation to be acceptable for a life's accomplishments for those who live that long. As far as questions at the gate, I can't subscribe to that medieval nonsense. But we can each review our own lives at any time and see if we think we are doing it right or not. It's simple in America: It's money that matters - R. Newman.

I have Net Worth, therefore I am. How would Messr. Descartes have phrased that?