Boy Scouts to Atheist: Accept A God or Get Out

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 10/30/02 | Michael L. Betsch

[kattracks]

(CNSNews.com) - The assistant Scoutmaster of a Pacific Northwest Boy Scout troop is currently faced with the decision of professing his belief in a "supreme being" or facing banishment from the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). However, 19-year-old Darrel Lambert said he's been an atheist since the ninth grade and he's sticking to his convictions.

Lambert's track record with the Seattle-based Troop 1531 is impressive. Throughout his 10-year scouting career he earned 37 merit badges to achieve the rank of Eagle Scout; served as a quartermaster and three-time senior patrol leader; and has dedicated himself to more than 1,000 hours of community service.

But Lambert is also passionate in his rejection of the existence of any supreme being, even though the BSA's regional Chief Seattle Council informed him that expressing a reverence for Mother Earth would be an acceptable form of worship.

Although Lambert admitted to his scout troop's review board that, for years, he had intentionally neglected to demonstrate the principles of faith and reverence to God contained within the Scout Oath and Law, he was awarded the BSA's highest honor last year - Eagle Scout. Coincidentally, his mom is the Scoutmaster of that troop.

Mark Hunter, spokesman for the BSA's regional Chief Seattle Council, said he could not comment or speculate whether Trish Lambert influenced members of the Eagle Scout review board that approved her son's Eagle Scout application, which mandates all applicants must: "Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life."

Ironically, Lambert addressed parents Monday night in the basement of a chapel at a retirement home, the Seattle Times reported. He urged those in attendance to look beyond the issue of his atheism and support his proven dedication to the Boy Scouts.

"I think the only power higher than myself is the power of all of us combined," Lambert said.

Additionally, Lambert said he wants to see the 92-year-old BSA repeal its national membership requirements, which includes on its application a Declaration of Religious Principle. He proposed that individual troops be given the right to devise the standards by which they extend their membership to Scouts and adult leaders.

Hunter said Lambert would be permitted to continue his leadership role and interact with members of Troop 1531 while he takes some time to "search out his feelings on this."

"If they're truly what they are," Hunter said, "his membership will be terminated."

Atheism rejected in court

A similar battle erupted in 1991 when twins, Michael and William Randall, refused to recite the Boy Scout Oath's reference to God and faced expulsion from the Orange County, Calif., Boy Scouts Council, said BSA spokesman Gregg Shields.

"At the time, they were eight-years-old ... and they said they were agnostics," Shields noted. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines an agnostic as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable."

The Randall twins' father, an attorney, argued a successful seven-year case in an Orange County district court only to have it overturned by the Calif. State Supreme Court in 1998.

Shields said the twins fulfilled all of the requirements to become Eagle Scouts, but since the Calif. Supreme Court ruled that the BSA could legally refuse to accept them as members, they were never awarded with the BSA's highest honor.

Teenage rebellion normal

"We recognize that in your early teenage years you go through a formative period where you question and you prod beliefs and you think about and you explore ideas," Shields said. "That's natural and to be expected."

But Shields said Lambert is now an adult who has chosen to lead a group that requires its young members and adult leaders to believe in a supreme being. He stressed that the organization places a high importance on the spiritual development of scouts to recognize a being greater than themselves.

"We expect an adult has the ability to make their own mind up about a belief," Shields said. "If one doesn't agree with the Boy Scout belief system, then perhaps boy scouting is not for that person."

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[KC Burke]

This is like the atheist, who sought out a church service, and then denounced its liturgy because he felt its emphasis on the resurection was offensive and not inclusive enough for him to feel welcome and unthreatened in his opinions.

Why did he join, stay with, and then deciede to apply for leadership in an organization which had a key precept he denounces?

Oh, I get it...he is trying to subvert it and control it to his will.

[jas3]

So he should quit the Boy Scouts. End of Story.

He can still do scouting, camping, etc. without belonging to a formal organization. Athiests are usually independent thinkers anyhow. He would likely do quite well starting his own group or scouting with his family and friends.

It does seem odd that the Boy Scouts would require a generalized belief in a higher being. What do they do about Buddhists, who don't believe in a higher being? Bhudism is more of a philosophy than a religion anyhow.

[fogarty]

Actually, I believe it was Blaise Pascal who made that statement.

[AndrewC]

Yes, but do they accept jihadi Muslims?

No. Neither do they accept religious cannibals.

[AndrewC]

Scouting is not about being relevant. Never was. Scouting is about morals and the character and honor of defending and living-out the same in the lives of young men and boys.

If I recall correctly scouts have to abide by this.

On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times; to keep my self physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

[Free the USA]

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list

[stuartcr]

Why do you think that God even cares what you or I believe?

[anniegetyourgun]

Actually, a betting man would consider Pascal's Wager and bet on Christianity. But then, it's not really about odds....it's about His grace through faith that folks come to eternal life in heaven and true joy in this life.

[punster]

It is really ironic, but about the first thing out of a person's mouth, even an avowed atheist, when things go wrong, is, "Oh, God!"

[anniegetyourgun]

Only to the extent that one's life and eternity depend upon it.

[stuartcr]

Why do you say that? Why do you believe that eternity depends on something you believe, which cannot be proven with human reasoning/logic, here on earth for 70 or 80 years?

[RonF]

Seventy eight posts on this story in this previous thread.

[RonF]

Speaking from experience in my Council, this kid's Troop got a female Scoutmaster probably because none of the fathers in the Troop would take the job. Some of them may have jobs that interfere with their ability to go on campouts and evening meetings. Some of them may have health problems. Some of them may not exist. Some of them are unsuitable due to either their morality, or an inability to work with kids.

And, I'm sure, some of them could do a fine job but don't understand that doing it is more valuable than perfecting their house, watching TV, having a regular tee time, or whatever else they do. Basically, they have no concept of civic or moral duty.

So, either this Troop gets a female Scoutmaster, or they don't get one at all, and the Troop folds. Too often, a unit's sponsor views a Scout unit as a nice appurtanence, but they put no effort (despite their defined duty) into leadership recruitment and development. The parents scramble. Understand that because of the very desire for suitable male companionship you note, there seem to be a lot of single-parent women who seek out Scouting for their children. Thus, there aren't as many fathers as mothers in the Troops.

And there isn't always another Troop for the Scouts to join. My unit is in an area that for years wasn't served by a Troop. Now that we exist, the other kids in the school know about us and the fact that we meet there, and they join. But without us, the nearest Troop is a few miles away. It wouldn't have the immediacy in the community, the parents won't seek it out, it would mostly consist of kids from other schools or churches, and the kids won't join. Kids want to be with their friends.

Understand that I have met a number of very fine female Scouters, including Scoutmasters, whose skills and morality I find unquestionable. In my unit we tell the families quite frankly that we emphasize recruiting the fathers, as we feel that suitable male role models are lacking in kids' lives. However, we welcome any parent who wants to put on a uniform (as long as they get the training), male or female, and we have a couple of women that I'm quite glad to see. One thing we do tell them, privately, is that they need to understand that they are an Assistant Scoutmaster; our unit has no position to be described as "Troop Mom". If a kid gets a cut, teach him how to clean it out and put a Band-Aid on it himself like the BSHB says; no tears, hugs, kisses, or trying to keep him away from using knives. There's been no problem with anyone on that.

[BibChr]

Put these together:

19-year-old Darrel Lambert said he's been an atheist since the ninth grade and he's sticking to his convictions.

And this:

Lambert's track record with the Seattle-based Troop 1531 is impressive

No, it's not! It's not "impressive" to LIE to a group of people for years, to take advantage of them by DECEIVING them, to FLAUNT their core beliefs so as to USE them for years — and then to launch a WHINE-FEST when they finally call you on it!

Lying swine.

Dan

[reasonseeker]

"Atheism takes great faith. Stating that there is no God with such conviction would require one to be all-knowing, a God, which in turn negates the original premise."

By your alleged logic, if someone tells you a little green man from Mars is sitting on your shoulder, and you state "with such conviction" that there is no little green man there -- this takes "great faith" and requires you to be all-knowing, a God.

[Zon]

It is really ironic, but about the first thing out of a person's mouth, even an avowed atheist, when things go wrong, is, "Oh, God!"

In my opinion and experience with others it is usually "God damn it!" Then again, I don't associate much with religious following people but rather more with self-leader types despite many of them believing their is a God. They're mostly put off by religion.

[Zon]

their = there

[yendu bwam]

I agree. If this guy disagrees honorably with what the Boy Scouts teaches, then the honorable thing is to resign. There are many atheist organizations he can join.

[yendu bwam]

It does seem odd that the Boy Scouts would require a generalized belief in a higher being. What do they do about Buddhists, who don't believe in a higher being? Bhudism is more of a philosophy than a religion anyhow.

It's not odd. The Boy Scouts in general believe that religion (in general) and the belief in a higher being and in God-given morality that (in general) go with such are beneficial and important to young men.

[yendu bwam]

If he had the courage of his convictions, he'd reject the Boy Scouts for failing to meet his qualifications.

Exactly.