Boy Scouts to Atheist: Accept A God or Get Out

CNSNEWS.com ^ | 10/30/02 | Michael L. Betsch

[kattracks]

(CNSNews.com) - The assistant Scoutmaster of a Pacific Northwest Boy Scout troop is currently faced with the decision of professing his belief in a "supreme being" or facing banishment from the Boy Scouts of America (BSA). However, 19-year-old Darrel Lambert said he's been an atheist since the ninth grade and he's sticking to his convictions.

Lambert's track record with the Seattle-based Troop 1531 is impressive. Throughout his 10-year scouting career he earned 37 merit badges to achieve the rank of Eagle Scout; served as a quartermaster and three-time senior patrol leader; and has dedicated himself to more than 1,000 hours of community service.

But Lambert is also passionate in his rejection of the existence of any supreme being, even though the BSA's regional Chief Seattle Council informed him that expressing a reverence for Mother Earth would be an acceptable form of worship.

Although Lambert admitted to his scout troop's review board that, for years, he had intentionally neglected to demonstrate the principles of faith and reverence to God contained within the Scout Oath and Law, he was awarded the BSA's highest honor last year - Eagle Scout. Coincidentally, his mom is the Scoutmaster of that troop.

Mark Hunter, spokesman for the BSA's regional Chief Seattle Council, said he could not comment or speculate whether Trish Lambert influenced members of the Eagle Scout review board that approved her son's Eagle Scout application, which mandates all applicants must: "Demonstrate that you live by the principles of the Scout Oath and Law in your daily life."

Ironically, Lambert addressed parents Monday night in the basement of a chapel at a retirement home, the Seattle Times reported. He urged those in attendance to look beyond the issue of his atheism and support his proven dedication to the Boy Scouts.

"I think the only power higher than myself is the power of all of us combined," Lambert said.

Additionally, Lambert said he wants to see the 92-year-old BSA repeal its national membership requirements, which includes on its application a Declaration of Religious Principle. He proposed that individual troops be given the right to devise the standards by which they extend their membership to Scouts and adult leaders.

Hunter said Lambert would be permitted to continue his leadership role and interact with members of Troop 1531 while he takes some time to "search out his feelings on this."

"If they're truly what they are," Hunter said, "his membership will be terminated."

Atheism rejected in court

A similar battle erupted in 1991 when twins, Michael and William Randall, refused to recite the Boy Scout Oath's reference to God and faced expulsion from the Orange County, Calif., Boy Scouts Council, said BSA spokesman Gregg Shields.

"At the time, they were eight-years-old ... and they said they were agnostics," Shields noted. Merriam-Webster's Dictionary defines an agnostic as "a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable."

The Randall twins' father, an attorney, argued a successful seven-year case in an Orange County district court only to have it overturned by the Calif. State Supreme Court in 1998.

Shields said the twins fulfilled all of the requirements to become Eagle Scouts, but since the Calif. Supreme Court ruled that the BSA could legally refuse to accept them as members, they were never awarded with the BSA's highest honor.

Teenage rebellion normal

"We recognize that in your early teenage years you go through a formative period where you question and you prod beliefs and you think about and you explore ideas," Shields said. "That's natural and to be expected."

But Shields said Lambert is now an adult who has chosen to lead a group that requires its young members and adult leaders to believe in a supreme being. He stressed that the organization places a high importance on the spiritual development of scouts to recognize a being greater than themselves.

"We expect an adult has the ability to make their own mind up about a belief," Shields said. "If one doesn't agree with the Boy Scout belief system, then perhaps boy scouting is not for that person."

E-mail a news tip to Michael L. Betsch.

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.

[yendu bwam]

Actually, the BSA doesn't ban gay scoutmasters. They ban "avowed" gays. If a gay scoutmaser keeps his sex life out of the newspapers and other media, and doesn't kiss his boyfriend goodbye in the parking lot before heading off to camp, he's able to serve as a SM in good standing.

If he affirms to the boys that he is homosexual (and is thus avowed), he can be banned.

[Diverdogz]

Well, membership in either one of these churches could keep an Boy Scout with an atheist belief system from being kicked out of scouting. "God", especially in the Universal Life Church, can mean anything you want it to mean.

You can become an ordained minister in the Universal Life Church in 3 minutes over the web. After becoming a minister, you have all the same rights that any minister of any religion has under the law: You can perform wedding ceremonies or act as someone's spiritual counsel (offering protection against being forced to testify against someone who has confided in you), I'm quite sure that many people take full advantage of the tax free opportunities afforded other religious organizations. ...buy a beach house and call it a retreat center, for example.

From the Universal Life Church website: www.ulc.org We believe everyone is already a member of the church and is just not aware of it as yet. The Universal Life Church will ordain anyone that asks without question of faith, for life, without a fee. Just select "Become Ordained" to complete the process right here on our World Wide Web site. The church has two tenets: the absolute right of freedom of religion and to do that which is right. Anything else within the law is allowed.

As an ordained minister of the church, you too may ordain new ministers. The Universal Life Church will not stand between you and your God and recognizes that each person must choose his own path. Each person in the ULC is free to follow any path as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others.

The UCTAA is my favorite: The Universal Church Triumphant of the Apathetic Agnostic Their articles of faith are as follows:
1. The existence of a Supreme Being is unknown and unknowable.
2. If there is a Supreme Being, then that being appears to act as if entirely apathetic to events in our universe.
3. We are apathetic to the existence or non-existence of a Supreme Being.

[yendu bwam]

However, you seem to labor under the same kind of thought that dominates everything else in society today. That is, if something 'good' can come from the distortion of some ideal or standard, then discarding the ideal is justified and will yield benefits. Yeah, right. The evidence is so abundant.

I'm with you, wcf. What you describe is one of the greatest weaknesses of our society today - and leads to a degradation of every good idea and moral.

[RonF]

If he affirms to the boys that he is homosexual (and is thus avowed), he can be banned.

Yes, certainly, and quite rightfully so. I had not meant my posting to cover all circumstances. I only meant to show that there were circumstances that a gay man could be a Scoutmaster.

[RonF]

Hm. Tell me, if a local unit couldn't recruit a male Scoutmaster, but one of the young men's mothers, or grandmother (I've seen it, or at least a woman old enough to be one) volunteered, would you think she should be rejected solely because of her gender?

[RonF]

It would be interesting to see what such a person (youth or adult) would answer when asked the question, "You promise to do your Duty to God. What, then, is your Duty to God?" Generally, "I don't have one" is not considered an acceptable answer. This is one of my favorite SM Conference/BOR questions to ask.

[TexConfederate1861]

Emphasis on "STRAIGHT".........hehe!

[RonF]

Your reply to jas3 was well put. However, you make the statement "Atheists (if they have any morality) can choose whatever morality (concept of good and bad) that they want." Opponents to the BSA viewpoint on this would say, "Well, the BSA would require him to be Trustworthy, etc. So the atheist couldn't choose any concepts he wanted to, he'd have to choose the Scout Oath and Law." This is an arguement I've heard.

Well, of course, the atheist couldn't choose to perform his Duty to God and be Reverent. But even more, the SO and SL aren't supposed to be all-inclusive of what you have to do to be moral and ethical. Baden-Powell was criticized when he initially set up the Boy Scouts that it seemed he was trying to set up an ethical system that was independent of religion (BP made some remarks that were interpreted as saying he didn't think formal religion was necessary). He was quick to disavow such an idea. The SO and SL supplement religion, but don't supplant it. Religion holds that ethical beliefs and acts must be based on the concept that human reason, emotion, and overall human nature is in and of itself insufficient to ensure right thinking and actions. And the BSA agrees.

[Diverdogz]

That is an excellent question, though I doubt the Boy Scout of America would quiz scouts on their beliefs - they just want to make sure the kiddies profess a belief.

The range of responses from Universal Life Church members would be vast. No doubt many are sincere in their beliefs, whatever the source of their beliefs. Others use it as a personal tool. We see the same thing from the major religions - politician use religious beliefs to garner votes, some use religion to make money...and all too often, religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Acceptable answers might be "None of your business" or "Face Detroit and recite the cycles of a four stroke engine for times a day ....intake, compression, ignition, exhaust..."

If I were a member of the ULC, My Duty to "god" would be pursue happiness - this is what he wants from me. My 'god' was wise to make it human nature for us to be happy when we:

Keep our bodies physically fit
Keep our minds sharp.
Drink occasional ceremonial elixers (aka Jim Beam and/or Merlot) (after reaching the ULC-mitzvah age of 21)
Make love.
Help others.
otherwise live a full and productive life.

Now, with the UCTAA, I suppose the answer would be that your duty is to await instructions, though you'd be too apathetic to ask for any, and the supreme being, if there is such an entity, is too apathetic to provide said instructions.

[Saturnalia]

The problem with Pascal's Wager is you can stick anything in place of the Judeo-Christian God and get the same results.

[stuartcr]

What is one's duty to God?

[Windsong]

"I have no idols."

Sure ya do Pancho. Its called "yourself". Your follow yourself, worship your self, and hope to attain "godhood" someday (per the Neo-Zonhead cult you joined up with)....I'd call that fairly within the realm of *following*.

Just my two and a half cents, mind you.

[Diverdogz]

The scout law is an excellent path towards happiness (they forgot the part about drinking some merlot with dinner)

The Meaning of the Boy Scout Law
Excerpted from page 47-54, Boy Scout Handbook, 11th Edition,
(#33105), copyright 1998 by BSA, ISBN 0-8395-3105-2

---

A Scout is Trustworthy.
A Scout tells the truth. He is honest, and he keeps his promises. People can depend on him.
A Scout is Loyal.
A Scout is true to his family, friends, Scout leaders, school, and nation.
A Scout is Helpful.
A Scout cares about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward.
A Scout is Friendly.
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He offers his friendship to people of all races and nations, and respects them even if their beliefs and customs are different from his own.
A Scout is Courteous.
A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows that using good manners makes it easier for people to get along.
A Scout is Kind.
A Scout knows there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. Without good reason, he does not harm or kill any living thing.
A Scout is Obedient.
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.
A Scout is Cheerful.
A Scout looks for the bright side of life. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.
A Scout is Thrifty.
A Scout works to pay his own way and to help others. He saves for the future. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.
A Scout is Brave.
A Scout can face danger although he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at him or threaten him.
A Scout is Clean.
A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He chooses the company of those who live by high standards. He helps keep his home and community clean.
A Scout is Reverent.
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

[RonF]

In my personal opinion, to keep the 10 Commandments, accept the Nicene and Apostles' Creed, and hold to the beliefs as expressed by the Episcopal Church of the United States of America. But, YMMV.

What I'm looking for when I ask the question is for the Scout to show that he thinks he has a Duty to God, and that he shows an age-appropriate understanding of what they are according to the tenets of his belief. It would also be acceptable to me if he said, "I know I have such a duty. I'm not sure what it are, but I'm trying to figure it out."

[stuartcr]

Thanks, I guess it depends on one's personal relationship with God.

[anniegetyourgun]

Sorry, had you confused with someone else on the thread who has decided that the Word of God is made up and not what it claims to be.

[yendu bwam]

Atheists (if they have any morality) can choose whatever morality (concept of good and bad) that they want." Opponents to the BSA viewpoint on this would say, "Well, the BSA would require him to be Trustworthy, etc. So the atheist couldn't choose any concepts he wanted to, he'd have to choose the Scout Oath and Law." This is an arguement I've heard.

Sure. But one of the fundamental ideas of (virtually) all religions is that morality is not something made up as we see fit, but is something transmitted to us by something that is greater than we are. Yes, an atheist scout would be bound by his scout oath. But he would not subscribe to this central idea - and would represent to other scouts the idea that morality (outside of the scout oath) is just something we make up whichever way we want, and that scouts believes that is an idea it can support. I do not believe that is an idea the vast majority of parents wish to have inculcated in their kids.

[yendu bwam]

But even more, the SO and SL aren't supposed to be all-inclusive of what you have to do to be moral and ethical. ... Religion holds that ethical beliefs and acts must be based on the concept that human reason, emotion, and overall human nature is in and of itself insufficient to ensure right thinking and actions. And the BSA agrees.

Wholeheartedly agreed!

[Zon]

I find it interesting that your respect for another's opinions is strictly correlated to the degree to which that individual has fueled the engines of industry.

I find it boring that you assert in straw-man-like fashion that you know how I determine respect for another's opinions.