Civilians patrol border (Arizona)

And there is a fair amount of bigotry towards hispanics still

And your absolutely correct, there are definite changes happening to this country, specifically, the bigotry towards white folks...And it's excalating all the time, due to the fact that in many areas, whites are *now* the minority and are being treated with utter comtempt...I guess in some circles, it would be considered justified...

Well hells bells, LOL! After reading about how many sick twisted child molesters and pedophiles are in religious circles, nothing surprises me about those folks.

You just said you're perfectly willing to buy an anti-semitic conspiracy theory as long as the guy is "anti-immigration."

So Spencer knew someone that ran the spotlight? If he was such good buddies with that guy, why didn't he hire him when his business went belly up? That paper is long dead!

First, he was buddy-buddy with Carto back when the Spotlight was a going concern. Spencer's got lous

Second, Carto is NOT the kind of guy who'd go work FOR anyone. It's all about Willis.

Look, the fact of the matter is, you can't have a public talk radio show, TV show or a popular website without attracting, interviewing, or dealing with people with fringe ideas. It's part of dealing with the public. Especially politically sensitive issues!

Actually, you CAN. You just decide from the beginning that you're not going to give your airtime, bandwidth, or your credibility over to folks who are white supremacists and neo-Nazis (or paleo-Nazis).

There's a lot of legitimate complaint to be made about the shambles that is America's immigration policy today. You don't need to add in the folks who will convince the undecided out there to stop listening to you. And on politically sensitive issues, that goes double, because you're only going to get one chance to persuade your audience.

Like it or not, you do get known by the company you keep.

What I think is absolutely extreme is banning or totally censoring those with different ideas or thoughts. Most people are smart enough to see the difference, and shouldn't be required to wear a blindfold.

Well, why not go to those fora that don't censor at all?

Oh, waitaminute. Those fora don't get taken seriously, because they let the racist wingnuts run around loose.

"Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas."

BTW, what do you get when you mix one gallon of raw sewage into 100 gallons of potable water?

101 gallons of raw sewage.

"By conducting these missions," Foote said, "we are standing shoulder to shoulder with the border county landowners in saying to the state and federal governments, 'Either you will keep these criminals off private property, or you will accept the fact that we are going to do so.' We are not going to offer them any other choices but those two." Law enforcement agencies do not appreciate the ultimatum."

Those same "Law Enforcement Agencies" are sitting around with their thumbs up their @$$e$ allowing the problem to get worse! If you aren't part of the solution, then you're part of problem.

What I think is extreme is that you think JimRob should associate with folks he doesn't want around, all in the name of freedom of speech.

Look, Jim told me himself that the immigration invasion of millions is "no big concern of his". And now, articles from the American Patrol are banned and or censored? Hehehe, I don't think I need to elaborate........LOL......

Look at the Republican party themselves. All standing in stone cold silence as this crisis continues. Just last week illegal aliens stood in front of the White House and shouted demands.

I mean for crying out loud, even one of these murdering snipers was an illegal alien!

Have we already forgotton? Does anyone even give a damn? Are we bigots for even mentioning this fact? When in the hell are people going to wake up to the fact that this is one of the largest, most threating issues facing this country.

A government that does not or will not, protect it's sovereignty and borders, will eventually become illegitimate....This I am confident of.

Actually, you CAN. You just decide from the beginning that you're not going to give your airtime, bandwidth, or your credibility over to folks who are white supremacists and neo-Nazis (or paleo-Nazis).

LOL! Are we still talking about American Patrol? Do you really think that's what they're really all about?

And they also get the occasional commentary about how inferior Mexicans are - that's the problem, and that's why their articles are not allowed here. If you want them to be allowed on FR, instead of complaining to JimRob, maybe you could approach American Patrol and ask them to curtail such articles.

Show me the articles! I haven't seen them on American Patrol - show them to me.

And, even so, the moderators can pull those specific articles and not just simply ban in whole content from one of the best immigration reform activist sites on the Internet.

By the way - Mexican is not a race, it is a nationality. One who is bigoted against Mexicans is not necessarily a racist. For example, many in the reconquista rebel community immediately tar someone as a racist if they ever used the term 'Wetback'. However, 'wetback' does not refer to a race, or even a nationality, it refers to people who have illegaly crossed the southern border. But, for their political correctness, they don't understand this. And that is what I'm afraid is occuring here.

Look, Jim told me himself that the immigration invasion of millions is "no big concern of his". And now, articles from the American Patrol are banned and or censored? Hehehe, I don't think I need to elaborate........LOL......

I don't think you WANT to elaborate. There is no shortage of threads regarding illegal immigration on FR - but, for reasons another poster has aptly documented, Glenn Spencer has apparently made himself persona non grata on FR.

Look at the Republican party themselves. All standing in stone cold silence as this crisis continues. Just last week illegal aliens stood in front of the White House and shouted demands. I mean for crying out loud, even one of these murdering snipers was an illegal alien!

You don't have to preach to the choir here - in case you haven't noticed, howevercomma and myself agree that there are serious problems with current immigration policy. However, you seem bound and determined to ignore howevercomma's VERY sound advice regarding Glenn Spencer. It makes it easy for the Dems to discredit your entire cause for Glenn Spencer to associate with Spotlight-types. Instead of bitching at JimRob, why don't you try and clean up your own movement? And if you don't see the need to clean up your own movement, what does that say about YOU?

Have we already forgotton? Does anyone even give a damn? Are we bigots for even mentioning this fact? When in the hell are people going to wake up to the fact that this is one of the largest, most threating issues facing this country.

Probably when you quit giving your enemies the hammer to hit you with.

A government that does not or will not, protect it's sovereignty and borders, will eventually become illegitimate....This I am confident of.

Likewise, a movement that does not protect its integrity and public image will always be branded as illegitimate - and THAT I am confident of.

Show me the articles! I haven't seen them on American Patrol - show them to me. And, even so, the moderators can pull those specific articles and not just simply ban in whole content from one of the best immigration reform activist sites on the Internet.

Check out posts #116 and #122 - looks like there is a bigger personal issue with Glenn Spencer.

By the way - Mexican is not a race, it is a nationality. One who is bigoted against Mexicans is not necessarily a racist.

Quit splitting hairs. My wife was called a lot of slurs as a kid, and still catches some bigotry. She doesn't dwell on it, but it is a reality.

For example, many in the reconquista rebel community immediately tar someone as a racist if they ever used the term 'Wetback'. However, 'wetback' does not refer to a race, or even a nationality, it refers to people who have illegaly crossed the southern border. But, for their political correctness, they don't understand this. And that is what I'm afraid is occuring here.

Wetback is a derogatory. You can just call them an illegal alien and leave it at that, if you want to not give your enemies the verbal hammer to hit you with.

LOL! Are we still talking about American Patrol? Do you really think that's what they're really all about?

Quit trying to spin away from the issue, and debate honestly. You're smart enough to understand what the poster is talking about here. Apparently Glenn Spencer, of his own free will, associated with Willis Carto. As a result, JimRob, of his own free will, is choosing not to associate with Glenn Spencer. Freedom of association. Do YOU not have a problem associating with the likes of Willis Carto? If you do not, what does that say about you, and what kind of ammo does that give your opponents to brand you as a bigot and take the debate away from you?

The choice is up to AP. They are right about a lot of issues. But can stay a small clique and thunder about immigration policy (or lack thereof), or they can toss aside the likes of Carto and reach a wider audience, thereby increasing the chances of actually making a political impact. The choice is AP's - and yours.

What I think is extreme is that you think JimRob should associate with folks he doesn't want around, all in the name of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is just one of many rights - and, last I checked, JimRob was not calling for American Patrol to be forcibly knocked off the internet. He just did not want to be associated with them, just as he doesn't care to associate with liberals. And that is just as fundamental a right as freedom of speech.

Of course Jim can do what he wants. That is not the point. The point is that the decision is questionable. It is just as questionable as if some other web forum decided to never allow content from the Republican National Committee because David Duke (former KKK) is a registered Republican and ran for office as a Republican. Or to ban all content from the Democratic National Committee because current Democratic Senator, Robert Byrd (WV-KKK) is a former KKK Grand Dragon.

In a public forum, upon which anyone can post just about anything, it is a hard argument to make that Free Republic is "associating" with radical, unnacceptable fringe elements simply by allowing articles to be posted from a website that is run by a person that may or may not have at one time had something to do with a defunct newsletter (The Spotlight) or who sometimes links to articles which may be considered politically incorrect by some people.

If there's a problem with specific content - racist or whatever - delete the threads. Wholesale banning of an activist website like American Patrol is not the answer.

Oopsies. Sorry, Joe, post #128 should have been directed to Spiff.

Actually, you CAN. You just decide from the beginning that you're not going to give your airtime, bandwidth, or your credibility over to folks who are white supremacists and neo-Nazis (or paleo-Nazis).

LOL!

I fail to see what's so funny about that. Michael Savage doesn't have the sorts of wingnuts on his show that Glenn Spencer has on his radio show and website. And Michael Savage gets taken a lot more seriously than Glenn Spencer. I submit that this isn't a coincidence.

Are we still talking about American Patrol?

Yes. And you're still not getting the point. You're either not bothering to pay attention, or you really don't WANT to get the point. Which one is it?

Do you really think that's what they're really all about?

I don't know what, exactly, they wish to do. I can only judge them by what they actually accomplish. And most of their accomplishments, to date, are giving airtime and bandwidth to the white supremacist community.

Glenn needs to get a LOT more discerning as to who he hands his megaphone to. There's a lot of people who have important and useful things to say about immigration who don't have the added baggage of being known racist Clymers.

Likewise, a movement that does not protect its integrity and public image will always be branded as illegitimate - and THAT I am confident of.

Therefore, political correctness must be exercised and enforced. I seem to recall some other movements who employed this concept.

In a public forum, upon which anyone can post just about anything,

Stop. There is your mistake. Free Republic doesn't fit that desctription. Your post may be deleted if it violates certain content guidelines. If you persist in violating those guidelines, or you violate them in an egregious manner, you can be prohibited from making further posts.

it is a hard argument to make that Free Republic is "associating" with radical, unnacceptable fringe elements simply by allowing articles to be posted from a website that is run by a person that may or may not have at one time had something to do with a defunct newsletter (The Spotlight) or who sometimes links to articles which may be considered politically incorrect by some people.

Since Mr. Robinson does manage the content of this server, if he lets it stand, then he's saying he finds the content to be acceptable to him.

Of course Jim can do what he wants. That is not the point. The point is that the decision is questionable. It is just as questionable as if some other web forum decided to never allow content from the Republican National Committee because David Duke (former KKK) is a registered Republican and ran for office as a Republican.

Last I checked, the vast majority of Republicans take great pains to distance themselves from David Duke. But Glenn Spencer has had Carto Willis on his radio show. Order of magnitude of difference.

Or to ban all content from the Democratic National Committee because current Democratic Senator, Robert Byrd (WV-KKK) is a former KKK Grand Dragon.

That demonstrates the hypocrisy of that organization.

In a public forum, upon which anyone can post just about anything, it is a hard argument to make that Free Republic is "associating" with radical, unnacceptable fringe elements simply by allowing articles to be posted from a website that is run by a person that may or may not have at one time had something to do with a defunct newsletter (The Spotlight) or who sometimes links to articles which may be considered politically incorrect by some people.

Try going over to LibertyForum - they have tried to avoid the rules and moderation of FR. And they are overrun with vile bigots, and are marginalized and avoided as a result.

If there's a problem with specific content - racist or whatever - delete the threads. Wholesale banning of an activist website like American Patrol is not the answer.

Instead of lecturing JimRob, why don't you instead get ahold of Glenn Spencer and ask why he discredits his site, and the entire movement, by having the likes of Willis on his show. Methinks you are getting after the wrong person here, because as long as Spencer does crap like that, he will give your enemies all the ammo they need to discredit your cause and keep it a fringe movement that does not appeal to enough voters to make a political impact. What matters more to you - unlimited freedom of speech? Or actually making progress by attracting more people to your cause and thereby giving the politicians cause for concern?

And, even so, the moderators can pull those specific articles and not just simply ban in whole content from one of the best immigration reform activist sites on the Internet.

That pretty much sums it up......

Wetback is a derogatory. You can just call them an illegal alien and leave it at that, if you want to not give your enemies the verbal hammer to hit you with.

Just so you know - I never use the term "wetback" - I'm only using it here as an example. I know it is derogatory. So what!? I don't care what my enemies think - they can go screw themselves. But by conforming to the enemy's standards you give them control - control of your own language and ideas. Wetback means nothing more than illegal border crosser - it is just a stronger, more derogatory term for a certain type of criminal. It means nothing more - it is not racist. However, the leftists and other reconquista reds have latched on to it and illegitimately used it to tar immigration reformers. Why? Because we let them do it. What other term will they use in the future - to twist into something that it is not - to further tar the opposition?

In this way the enemy gains ground - because we give it to them. And, before you know it, we're playing their same stupid game - that they're much better at playing than us - and then we forget what we were fighting for in the first place. In the meantime, freedom of thought and speech suffers. Orwell demonstrated the power of this twisting of language and political correctness in '1984'. Why are we so reluctant to see it happening right now and apply the lessons we've learned about it.

I fail to see what's so funny about that. Michael Savage doesn't have the sorts of wingnuts on his show that Glenn Spencer has on his radio show and website. And Michael Savage gets taken a lot more seriously than Glenn Spencer. I submit that this isn't a coincidence.

Does Glenn Spencer have a radio show? Because, I've never heard of it or seen it.

Since Mr. Robinson does manage the content of this server, if he lets it stand, then he's saying he finds the content to be acceptable to him.

And the next article in the mainstream media about FR will dredge up the fact that JimRob allowed it to stay up, so he must be some right-wing bigot.

Clarence Thomas gave some sound advice to Charles Barkley once - don't give your enemies the hammer to hit you with. Spiff and Joe, I am not disagreeing with your basic issues regarding illegal immigration - quite the contrary, the debates on this forum have shifted my position. But initially I didn't listen because of all the bigoted commentary that some posters made about Mexicans. Once JimRob cleared that crap out, the issue became much clearer. Spencer is giving the libs and Azatlan types all the ammo they need to discredit YOUR ENTIRE MOVEMENT when he has someone like Willis on his show. Is that what you really want?

So you guys can bitch at JimRob for keeping any whiff of bigotry or association with bigotry off of FR- or, if you're smart, you'll look at what happened with me once the bigotry was removed from the debate, and maybe examine how you can improve your own cause to reach more people. The choice is yours.

Likewise, a movement that does not protect its integrity and public image will always be branded as illegitimate - and THAT I am confident of.

So many people are being swallowed up by this politically correct mentality, or other agendas not quite so visible....

We are dealing with a nation destroying issue here and have been for over 20 years, as this crisis escalates everyday.

We seem more concerned about someone being offended by something someone may say, than the issue itself!

This is nuts!