You can kill your baby or kill to protect it

Minneapolis Star Tribune ^ | 10/27/02 | George Will

[mikenola]

Antonio Pena and Jaclyn Kurr of Michigan were a turbulent pair

...more excellence from the "undocumented" community...

[rhema]

PING

[verity]

The quads would have had wonderful parents had they and the father survived. Perhaps the outcome was fortuitous.

[Artist]

"The quads would have had wonderful parents had they and the father survived. Perhaps the outcome was fortuitous."

How many people have you met that have said, "Gee, I really wish my rotten parents had killed me before I was born."

Most people, whatever their backgrounds, value their lives.

[verity]

Most people, whatever their backgrounds, value their lives.

I see you missed my point!

[Artist]

How so? I thought your point was that the babies were probably better off dead than born to bad parents.

I'd be glad to be wrong, since your comment seems so awful.

[Teacher317]

If those babies were born just a bit premature (which isn't uncommon in quadruplet cases), they could be on life-support. They would not be "viable" ("capable of living, developing, or germinating under favorable conditions" - dictionary.com).
If Pena came in and unplugged them, it would be murder. The mother, the hospital staff, or a guard could use potentially lethal force "in defense of others" to stop him from doing so.
Therefore, the judge's argument, that the lack of viability in the intended victim negates a "defense of others" defense, is not valid.

[ClearCase_guy]

She had a constitutional right -- her privacy right of "choice" -- to kill the unborn babies. And in Michigan and many other states she could kill someone who endangered them. That's the law.

I love the complexities that result from the mushy non-thinking of the leftists. Can I just gratuitously link in Kevorkian and assisted suicide here as well? If a woman were to consider abortion, she would be a threat to her babies, therefore, the law says that she should be allowed to kill herself in order to save the babies, which perhaps could be transplanted to one of those surrogate mothers, who then might ...

Oh, it all turns to rot once you start down these roads.

[DonQ]

This story has been much touted by the anti-aborts as somehow dovetailing with Right to Life propaganda, but I see it differently. Most of the people hyping this story interpret and emphasize it as the woman killing to protect her fetuses, not as the woman protecting herself, as she was merely a fetus-carrier. But she was protecting her own body, at least as much as she might have been protecting her fetuses. She was exercising some autonomy over her own body.

[MHGinTN]

Thank you for bringing this out ... the issue is fundamentally one of life support. The mother was fighting to maintain her body's life support of three tiny individual human beings. Abortion of living, individual human beings is sanctioned serial killing which drives a knife deep into the heart of what America once stood for. The societal engineers have been quite successful in that regard, degenerating my America.

[maxwell]

This story has been much touted by the anti-aborts as somehow dovetailing with Right to Life propaganda, but I see it differently.

Yep-- sounds like a good ol' Jerry Springer smackdown to me... Probably the lawyer was the one who came up with "hey, it was fetal defense!"

BUT if it works for her, I see that as one more legal foothold for the prolife movement. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. At least not too closely.

[Z in Oregon]

I read this in the local paper today. George Will's best column yet. He's a stand up guy.

This reminds me of hate crimes legislation: it is not the destructive action they care about, but who did it. That philosophy is the opposite of what America is based on.

[Z in Oregon]

So, you've sold your soul to the pro-abortion crowd. Babies being dismembered don't move you, so long as the "right" person (a woman) sanctioned the breaking of their bodies?

[traditionalist]

Kurr did not fear for her life, but warned Pena that she was carrying his babies. She was 16 or 17 weeks pregnant with quadruplets. When Pena seemed about to punch her again, she stabbed him in the chest, fatally.

Good girl!

[WarSlut]

So, you've sold your soul to the pro-abortion crowd.

I'd argue that the pro-aborts never had a soul to sell in the first place. Debating them is futile.

[traditionalist]

But she was protecting her own body, at least as much as she might have been protecting her fetuses. She was exercising some autonomy over her own body.

Sorry, but that won't fly. Lethal force in self-defense is only justifiable if the attacker was threatening the victim's life. Pena never threatened Kurr's life. The only way to justify her actions is to admit that she has a right to defend the lives of her unborn babies.

[Z in Oregon]

What is the origin of your screen name? Ten years ago, that was the nickname for CNN dilitante Christianne Amanpour.

[Z in Oregon]

Sure, but she should be legally barred from killing them too!

[traditionalist]

Oh, absolutely. It is a complete absurdity to say she has the right to use lethal force to defend them and then turn around and say she also has a right to kill them. I think that's Will's point.