Moscow Counter-Terrorist Raid (Novel tactic used).

CNN ^ | Saturday, October 26, 2002. | Avril Stephens

[spetznaz]

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Russian special forces carried out a "novel" attack to end the Moscow theatre hostage crisis -- but incurred a high death toll in its execution, a military expert says.

About 750 people were saved in the dawn raid by Russian forces on Saturday, but 67 of the hostages died in the operation and a further 42 were taken to hospital, apparently suffering from gas inhalation.

A sleeping gas was used to confuse and disarm the 50 Chechen rebel hostage-takers during the storming of the building, in which all of the 75 non-Russians and 25 children are believed to have been freed unharmed.

Jim Condon, a military expert for UK security company AKE, told CNN: "Russian special forces had no option but to carry out the attack after the hostage-takers were reported to have begun carrying out their threat of killing the captives.

The use of a sedative gas was a unique and well-planned idea, put into place early on in the three-day siege.

"I have not seen a sleeping gas used before in such a situation," Condon said.

"It seems it was in the Russian arsenal and they had planned to use it. They could not have got it into place so quickly on Saturday morning otherwise. It was part of their repertoire and they were working to a plan."

The Russian special forces faced a unique situation, with so many people having been taken, being held in a such a small building and with so many well-armed terrorists around them. It would have been easy for the rebels to have killed all the hostages, Condon said.

Television footage showed Russian troops calmly approaching the building before the raid.

"They knew the gas would have been used and that there would be minimum resistance, and they did not want to cause any unnecessary disturbances," Condon added. The elite Alpha force, part of Russia's former KGB, had carried out other preparational work such as getting people into the theatre, to ascertain who was in the building, the numbers involved, and how well armed they were.

The building was reported to have been booby-trapped, with mines at the entrances and exits as well as passageways and on the seats. Some of the women hostage-takers had explosives strapped to their waists and a huge bomb was in the centre of auditorium.

It is not clear how many of these went off, if any. Special forces searching the building after the operation said they found 30 devices.

The Russians knew what they were up against in the character of the hostage-takers, having been faced with previous Chechen attacks, Condon said.

The biggest was in a southern Russian hospital in 1995 when 1,000 patients were held captive at Budyonnovsk, near the border with Chechnya.

Russian troops unsuccessfully stormed the hospital twice, and more than 100 civilians, police and soldiers died in the gun battles.

Seventy-eight people, including police offices, soldiers and civilians, were killed in a separate incident six months later when another group of Chechen rebels raided a hospital in the southern Russian town of Kizlyar, taking hundreds of hostages and using them as human shields.

"The Chechens have acted extremely brutally in the past. They are willing to die, there is no doubt about that," Condon said.

"We know they are absolutely committed to their cause. The use of women in the crisis is a political statement saying that the entire community is involved in their campaign."

They had used a Russian anniversary this weekend to highlight their cause on the international arena.

The crisis was proving to be the sternest test faced by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Anna Matreeva, of the London-based security organisation Safer World, told CNN Putin's options were not looking good, but that he was "forced to do something under public pressure and with all the international spotlight on him."

But the death of 67 hostages was a high toll.

"It is a success, but it has been tainted by the fact that so many innocent people have lost their lives," Condon added.

"Russia has proved that it is determined not to give into these Chechen rebels."

It is not clear how many of the captives were killed by the hostage-takers and how many were caught in the cross-fire with Russian troops.

"We have to find out through an autopsy on how the hostages died," Condom said.

[archy]

Novichok - recently developed choline sterase inhibitor (U.S.S.R.). May affect human genes and thus damage could be transmitted to offspring.

NOWHERE CAN I FIND INFORMATION THAT THIS AGENT CAUSES SLEEPING.

See following account, particularly regarding tests of Novochok-33 in low doses, and various interesting effects, including reported IMPROVED marksmanship ability with small arms, in some instances. But I suspect the *sleeping* it causes is of the permanent variety, as per the effects noted in the photos of the dead terrorists without visible bullet wounds, who had nevertheless evacuated their bowels and bladders [per stained carpets beneath them] upon exposure to the *sleep gas.*

We'll see; look for numbers of the gassed hostages who become casualties soar into the 150+ range over the next week. But I bet the bargaining of supplies of 2-PAM or Atropine for the captured terrorists makes for an interesting bargaining chip during their interrogations, particularly as they watch others so exposed expire.

-archy-/-

[MarMema]

Let me know what you find out. I am very interested. Reporting now that about 340 people in the hospital, and some critical. The death toll will probably rise, but overall it was not just the gas.
Lack of food and water for three days was not helpful and many people were going downhill before the gas. Then the gas was the final straw for some perhaps.

[Jaded]

Bingo!! It's not surprising though. Remember the way the media carried on on 9/11 when Bush left Washington? They wanted to broadcast his itinerary and were ticked when they didn't get it.

There are some things the leftist media does NOT need to know.

[MarMema]

a novel ping to you!

Btw there was a chechen on a chechen board who also predicted correctly. She said, the day before it happened -
"It will end this way. British and American special forces will render anyone inside the building unconscious. Then Russian forces will move in and shoot every raider to death.."

[MarMema]

Your point about the speed needed is a good one. Cholinesterase inhibitors decrease breathing function and movement of skeletal muscle. They are particularly cruel, however, in that mental awareness is clear and unchanged. They simply don't allow muscles to work. Mental changes are from the lack of oxygen when the chest cannot rise and breathe.

There is a rare deficiency among some people to produce cholinesterase, enough at least, to recover from surgery, in which the inhibitors are used to paralyze the patient. I have seen the terror in the eyes of those who could not move and were fully aware, although breathing was being done for them. Thankfully fresh frozen plasma is a quick solution.

It is my hope that much fresh frozen plasma was on-hand for the hostages, if indeed a cholinesterase inhibitor was used. It could explain the numerous requests for help in the Russian media before the rescue operation - they were gathering and stocking plasma.

[archy]

There are reports that in afghanistan, Soviet forces used a gaseous agent that dissolved gas masks in tandem with nerve agents.

Yep, *Molniya,* dissolving gas masks and human skin, among other things. But it's not a derivitive of nitrogen mustard, and is odorless and tasteless, as are most nerve agents.

[LadyDoc]

You aske:Next time the Chechens or other Islamofascists simply show up with gas masks. Then what do we do?

If it was anesthesia, gas masks would do.Nerve gas, however, will go thru clothing and thru skin. They would have to wear MOPP suits or something similar to protect themselves. And then, as the Russians are well aware, all you have to do is add a chemical to make the MOPP suits deteriorate quickly, so that they allow the gas to penetrate protective gear.

MOPP suits were used in the old cold war era, presumably there are new suits to protect our GI's against Sadamm's gases.
http://www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/HomePage/WhatsNew/MedAspects/contents.html

[archy]

They are particularly cruel, however, in that mental awareness is clear and unchallenged.

Well, depends on method of ingestion [skin contact absorption or inhalation/ingestion] and dosage. But see the MSDS *here* for effects from US nerve agent VX: [at addendum *A*]which may have similar results, if differing chemically from Russian chemical agents.

*Exposure to high concentrations of nerve agent may bring on incoordination, mental confusion and collapse so rapidly that the casualty cannot perform self-aid. If this happens, the mabn nearest to him will give first aid.*

Effect of Russian agent, delivered via unknown means, into enclosed area, particularly affecting those near doorways and in open areas [thereby less diluted by being spread among several individuals] might be very different. But note also MSDS comments regarding repeated dosages to those afflicted. Not a problem for recovering hostages...but captured terrorists may have such a problem. And training videos made of such things would be nice morale boosters.

-archy-/-

[seeker41]

It is my belief that the agent used was 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate (BZ) (now called QNB) developed during the Cold War.

The chemical warfare agent 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate (QNB, BZ) is an anticholinergic agent that affects both the peripheral and central nervous systems (CNS). It is one of the most potent anticholinergic psychomimetics known, with only small doses necessary to produce incapacitation. It is classified as a hallucinogenic chemical warfare agent. QNB usually is disseminated as an aerosol, and the primary route of absorption is through the respiratory system. Absorption also can occur through the skin or gastrointestinal tract. It is odorless. QNB's pharmacologic activity is similar to other anticholinergic drugs (eg, atropine) but with a much longer duration of action.

[archy]

It is my hope that much fresh frozen plasma was on-hand for the hostages....

Yes. Likewise HI-6 or 2PAM, as used for treatment of those exposed to organophosphorous insecticides in agricultural and industrial accidental overexposures. The U.S. military first-aid response is atropine, usually from spring-loaded hypodermic auto-injectors.

But that's also a good reason for the large numbers of troops in the area, already blood-group typed and ready for donations, should one of the hostages with a less common blood group require serological replenishment. Such treatment usually requires several weeks to several months duration, assuming, as in this case, no further exposure to the agent. ChemWar traetment may have been immediately available for all concerned [would help explain reported hypodermic marks on the dead terrorists] with transport to advanced treatment being carried out immediately upon rescue. Good chance for high numbers of recoveries of those minimally dosed, but also unfortunate liklihood that many of the seriously affected will not pull through.

[archy]

There are some things the leftist media does NOT need to know.

You wish to go inside and film the action? And interview the *freedom fighters?* Why certainly, Mr/Ms leftist *journalist*- go right on in ahead!

Kerchoo! [Followed by blurred eyes and runny nose...then, other things!]

[TopQuark]

They claim it is much like the border between, say, Illionois and Indiana.

[Straight Vermonter]

They implied there was a border between Russia and Chechnya. One would not say there was a border between the US and Illinois.

[archy]

From FReeppost *here*

Vasilyev, the deputy interior minister, said none of the 67 initial victims died from gas poisoning. He said nine died because of heart problems, shock or lack of medicine. At the same time, doctors at City Hospital No. 13, where more than 320 freed hostages were taken, said none of those hospitalized had gunshot wounds, Moscow's TVS television reported.

That sound consistant with BZ/ QNB usage to you? I'm not very familiar with it. If hallucinations were a byproduct result, treatment for seeming psychological symptoms might be ongoing, understandably.

The Spetznaz guys came in and killed the terrorists...great big pink bunnyrabbit Spetznaz razvedki guys with GREAT BIG teeth, and claws....

[seeker41]

You know I'm thinking it may be a modified version of BZ, it caught my interest due to it's incapaciting effect and it is not deadly like some of the other agents. It does cause nausea and reactions similar to what I saw on the photos of the survivors. Inability to walk etc... Guess we'll have to wait for the survivors to tell us of the exact effects.

[blam]

I'm really impressed that so many of you know so much about these gasses.

[seeker41]

Please note the gas mask.

[F-117A]

If it was anesthesia, gas masks would do.Nerve gas, however, will go thru clothing and thru skin.

It was reported that one of the Chechen terrorists WAS wearing a gas mask!

[F-117A]

You're right... Quark just likes to cause trouble!