Bush says does not support independence for Taiwan -(Bush Shafts Taiwan, mine)

Reuters ^ | 10-26-02

[tallhappy]

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush said on Friday the United States would use its influence to ensure China and Taiwan settle their differences peacefully and promised to make it clear to Taipei that Washington does not support independence.

In a news conference with Chinese President Jiang Zemin, Bush said the United States stood by the "one China" policy, which acknowledges that Chinese on both sides of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is only one China and that Taiwan is part of China.

"The 'one China' policy means that the issue ought to be resolved peacefully," Bush said.

"We've got influence with some in the region. We intend to make sure that the issue is resolved peacefully, and that includes making it clear that we do not support independence," Bush added.

Taiwan's president, Chen Shui-bian, has voiced support for a referendum on formal independence from China.

The move outraged Beijing, which views the island as a renegade province and a linchpin in Sino-U.S. relations.

Beijing had hoped Bush would repeat a pledge not to back independence for Taiwan, which China says must eventually be reunified with the mainland, by force if necessary.

Nationalists headed by Chiang Kai-shek fled to Taiwan in 1949 after losing a civil war to Mao Zedong's communists. Washington shifted diplomatic recognition to Beijing in 1979.

But the United States has offered Taiwan the biggest arms package in a decade and Bush has pledged to do "whatever it takes" to help the democratically governed island protect itself.

Bush did not repeat that pledge at Friday's news conference.

But during a visit to China earlier this year, he said, "When my country makes an agreement, we stick with it, and there is (something) called the Taiwan Relations Act and I honour that act, which says we will help Taiwan defend herself if provoked."

China says it is seriously concerned about the U.S. warming to Taiwan under Bush and has called on Washington to halt military contacts and arms sales to the island.

[agrandis]

Doesn't surprise me a bit. You will hear a thousand excuses, befre this thread is over, of why the current champion of "American Conservatism" HAD to say this.

I would have been surprsied and gratified had he supported taiwanese independence.

[BillCompton]

Do you think the author could add the Canada part in somehow?
BWAHAHAHAHA!
What say ye Jeff? Can you?
Bill, you're clueless!

Kind of a harsh comment for someone just making a joke, however lame it was.See post 150

[philman_36]

Ah, well then, if you knew that Jeff was the author then please accept my apologies.
I was having a bit of a laugh at your expense.
Your comment suggested that you didn't know who the author was. I stand corrected.

Why did you never get back to me on my earlier comments to you? You found the time to get back on this?

[BillCompton]

I did get back to your comments, I think. The last one that I saw was:

>>I don't understand this conclusion.
What should be painfully obvious obviously isn't to some. Think about it, the clues are all there.

Frankly I did not consider it a substantive response.

[philman_36]

Frankly I did not consider it a substantive response.
That's funny, that isn't what you said yesterday...
Excellent post.
Are you you today or are you suffering from body/mind snatching?

[philman_36]

Frankly I did not consider it a substantive response.
Oops, I went to the wrong reply didn't I. My apologies.
Well, to make the not so obvious obvious, let's look at the clues...
Who did we build up economically after WWI and before WWII? Germany.
Who did Chamberlain appease in their aggression? Germany.
Who became our enemy in WWII after having had millions of dollars in foreign investment into the German economy?
You getting the picture yet?

[BillCompton]

I am not sure where we are going wrong here.

I understood you to say, why didn't you respond to my last post. I looked, and the last post said "think and it will come to you" or words to that effect. I wrote back and said that I didn't think it was substantive. You wrote back and said "you said Excellent Post".

Did I get it right? Well the "Excellent Post" reply was...well, a reply. So what were you referring to when you wrote:
Why did you never get back to me on my earlier comments to you? You found the time to get back on this?

[philman_36]

I wrote back and said that I didn't think it was substantive.
So what were you referring to when you wrote:
You're "I don't understand what you're getting at" response. You never did get it so I just tried to fill you in on what I meant in that reply.
I was trying to draw out the similarities with our current "China policy" with what occured prior to WWII with Germany. Do you understand now?

[BillCompton]

So the Chamberlanian part? If Chamberlain had supplied arms to Poland and had said that if you (Hitler) attack Poland we can and will repulse you, then it would fit. Exactly how are we appeasing the Chinese? I don't see your analogy. Are you talking about Austria and Suederlan(sp?)?

What's kind of interesting and what I would like to understand better relates to a man and wife couple who made the talk show rounds about a month or so ago. They had done surveys in 15 or so countries around the world to find out what young people in those countries thought about the U.S. The Taiwanese young people had a worse opinion of the U.S. than most of the Arab countries. What is up with that?

[formosaplastics]

Unlike America, China didn't turn away Jews from its shores during World War II.

[formosaplastics]

In my experience, Chinese have a lot less prejudice toward others than white people.

[Spirited]

I figure the wealthy, educated and numerous liberty-loving faithful Americans of Chinese heritage need to donate their politics dollars to other than the Bush interests.

Since Bush calculates to have the imigrant vote he doesn't need to love liberty for the free Chinese..Not the first time this has happened to the Chinese. Not the first time for the Bush family, either.

Makes one wonder how many "interests" the Bush clan still has in China.

[philman_36]

So the Chamberlanian part? Are you talking about Austria and Suederlan(sp?)?
Ta-dah! You jumped right over the Rhineland/Sudetanland aspect to key in on Poland. What else did you think I was refering to in my reference to appeasement?
If Chamberlain had supplied arms to Poland and had said that if you (Hitler) attack Poland we can and will repulse you, then it would fit.
The Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland. London, August 25, 1939 is as close as they had in that day to "supplying arms" to another naton.
America, after the Lend-Lease program (...all help "short of war"...) was started in March 1941, only supplied arms after they were bought and transported by the Brits.
Poland
March 31, 1939 - Chamberlain says that England will fight to preserve Poland's independence.
Snip...August 31, 1939 - Germans put Polish prisoners in German uniforms and the Germans were in Polish uniforms. The Germans (dressed up as Polish) go into a German radio station and shoot the Polish (dressed up a Germans). This was an excuse to invade Poland.
We won't even take a stand to help Taiwan gain independence, much less preserve it.
Exactly how are we appeasing the Chinese?
Didn't you read the article? No independence for Taiwan.
What is up with that?
Damned if I know. You watched the show. Didn't the couple doing the surveys give an explanation?

[formosaplastics]

Every American has some financial interest in China, not just the "Bush clan." Most Americans own index funds, and every index fund has companies whose future growth is dependent on China. America's markets are saturated so China is the next place to boost revenues. Intel just announced that China has become its #2 source of revenue worldwide. In addition, every American benefits from low-cost Chinese-made goods. The ability to buy these cheap goods makes American consumers' dollars go farther, helps keep US inflation low, and helps keep America's standard of living the highest in the world. China's presence on the economic global scene over the next several decades is the biggest "tax cut" imaginable for America's consumers. China plays the low-cost provider role today that Japan, Korea, Singapore, etc. used to play but can no longer play due to their wages having risen to First World levels over the past several decades.

[formosaplastics]

We won't even take a stand to help Taiwan gain independence, much less preserve it.

But does the average Taiwanese these days even want independence? They're more busy investing in, trying to find a job in, and finding a wife in China these days, to tell you the truth.

[philman_36]

You sound like a government spokesperson. It's aaaall gooood.
But does the average Taiwanese these days even want independence? They're more busy investing in, trying to find a job in, and finding a wife in China these days, to tell you the truth.
Well, since you've already told me the truth, and what to think, why should I bother answering or trying to refute you?

[formosaplastics]

Are you the only person on Earth who doesn't know that Taiwanese are investing billions of dollars into China these days? Are you even aware that in the last 2 years, over 1 mil. Taiwanese have actually moved to the mainland?

[formosaplastics]

I am just telling you the situation in Taiwan. As you may have heard, Taiwan's economy is really terrible right now. Among other things, Taiwan's military budget has hit an 8-year low due to Taiwan's economic problems and capital flight. These are just some facts maybe you weren't aware of.

[formosaplastics]

Taiwan's fast economic days are over. Every Taiwanese wakes up every morning knowing that the mainland is where the economic action is going to be over not just the next several years but the next several decades. Every day, more Taiwanese hi-tech firms abandon Taiwan for the mainland. Pres. Chen keeps scaring away foreign investors with his independence talk so foreign investment into Taiwan is down a whopping 50% in the last year. In addition, he's a tax-loving socialist and pro-environmentalist wacko of the very first order, which is providing even more incentive for Taiwanese hi-tech firms to abandon the island. I can't believe it but in just 2 short years, Pres. Chen has pretty much reversed Taiwan's economic miracle for good.

[philman_36]

Are you the only person on Earth who doesn't know that Taiwanese are investing billions of dollars into China these days?
Oh, I keep up on things. You got a "vested interest" in your spiel there, Formosa Plastics? Taiwanese or Taiwanese businesses?
Taiwan's Investment in Chinese Mainland Increases 12.99 Percent
Snip...Meanwhile, Taiwan's investment in Chinese mainland from January to May registered 1.2 billion U.S. dollars, a 12.99 per cent growth compared to the same period last year.
Hon Hai Precision Industry Co. and Formosa Plastic Group's investment plans estimated to be over 20 million U.S. dollars each, were two major players that helped boost the figure, the report said.

Are you even aware that in the last 2 years, over 1 mil. Taiwanese have actually moved to the mainland?
Yeah? I'd like to read about that. Are you aware that many nations are on the lookout for illegal Chinese immigrants who are looking for a better life outside of their communist-controlled homeland"?
And as a little "tidbit" on independence...
Taiwan's Move on Passports Step towards 'Independence'
Bottom of article...Chen Shui-bian, from the pro-independence Democratic Progressive Party, grabbed power after defeating the Kuomintang party in the election in 2000.
They don't want independence so badly they didn't elect a pro-independence party in 2000.