Muslim arrested in Beltway case (John Muhammad)

WorldNetDaily ^ | October 24, 2002 | Art Moore

[Lx]

I thought it was already running and had been abandoned. Oregon rings a bell though.

[Mitchell]

Thanks for the ping, keri.

The connections seem so fluid and nebulous that we'll probably never find out the whole truth about any of this.

[Technogeeb]

He loves America, but he is also committed to his religion

Sorry, but this simply is not possible. One of the REQUIREMENTS of Islam is to strive for an Islamic state under Sharia law. Islam is fundamentally incompatible with many of the principles of the United States government (freedom of speech, expression, equal rights, etc). In other words, what you insist is true cannot be, since it is a paradox. If he is loyal to America, he cannot be a good Muslim. And if he is a good Muslim, he cannot be loyal to America. Under Islam, the two are mutually exclusive.

If this man is really your friend, then either you must be a muslim as well, or he isn't really your friend (or were you unaware that the Quran demands that Muslims take neither Christian nor Jew as friend, and only other muslims?). In other words, this too is a paradox. If he is really a good friend of yours, then he isn't a good muslim. And if he is a good muslim, then he isn't really a good friend of yours.

The best you can hope for is that this person isn't really a devout muslim, but is instead just some guy that grew up under muslim culture and didn't take it too seriously.

[Chapita]

That was a lot of shootin' and scootin' for one team!

[tm22721]

This country is sick with PCism to the point of no chance of recovery.

There is a way to return but it involves economic meltdown to reset everybody's expectations back to the days before our kids were spoiled and we were too involved with survival to worry about minorities.

BUMP

[mikeIII]

motives were both greed and terror...

Exactly! These are not mutually exclusive. But given his greater weakness for $s than 72 virgins, he may not have been found suitable for some of the more serious terrorist jobs.

[keri]

We'll probably not ever know the whole truth, I agree.

The connections *are* fluid and nebulous, that is true as well. But I also think it doesn't matter there is no clear, well-defined and established link. The common goal of all these groups is the same: to establish a "nation of Islam." I don't think -- at least any longer --this means a geographical area...

[stuartcr]

Perhaps he is a good Muslim with reservations about some aspect of his religion, sort of like a lot of Christians that don't agree on everything.

[CDHart]

"You can actually hear the dissapointment in all the media members' voices that the killer is not some white militia member."

Even this a.m., Fox was reporting on their website that the camp in Alabama was a "militia training camp." Also, Rush was saying that the first news that came out last night, the networks were referring to "militia."

Carolyn

[Mitchell]

But I also think it doesn't matter there is no clear, well-defined and established link.

I agree. I think that part of the goal of grand-scale attacks like 9/11 is to encourage radical Muslims everywhere to rise up on their own, even without any formal attachment to an organized group.

[Michael2001]

I've said from the beginning that these guys are not as smart as everyone thinks. Turns out that that was the case, and thank God for that.

[MadelineZapeezda]

I guess Falwell was right when he called Muhammad a terrorist.

I just heard Rush just say the same thing. He musta been FReepin!

[Publius]

If he is loyal to America, he cannot be a good Muslim. And if he is a good Muslim, he cannot be loyal to America. Under Islam, the two are mutually exclusive.

And there you have the core of the problem. And it explains why the media is downplaying the fact that the perp is both black and Muslim. It's not a matter of political correctness. It's a matter of avoiding the kind of draconian steps that would place us next to Hitler in the world's eyes. It's about not losing the moral high ground in this war.

Let's parse the problem.

That a substantial percentage of our native blacks who have become Muslims fervently support our enemies and are prepared to take up arms to support those enemies should give anyone pause. What's the solution? Martial law and internment? That risks a race war because our black citizens share the same 2nd Amendment rights that we all possess as Americans. To assume that they will all go to the camps submissively is foolish.

To shut the country down, expel all non-citizen Muslims and intern all Muslims who are American citizens would require the full manpower of our armed forces. Who will then fight Iraq (or Iran or Saudi Arabia)? An internal race war is a gift to Al-Quaeda and would fulfill their prophecy that they can destroy us as a world power. It would end any chance of our fighting a war in the Middle East without causing the entire Muslim world to go to war with us. And it's unlikely that we'd have any allies if we had to resort to such draconian means to keep the peace at home.

So what can the government do? Play down the whole black Muslim concept so nobody gets the idea that these people are warriors for Islam. What worries the people at the top is that an incident like this could provide the basis for a fifth column as others copy the perps' actions. Nobody wants a full scale religious/racial war in America. They're hoping this is an isolated incident and don't want to open that particular Pandora's box.

[Michael2001]

Actually, the Islamofacists relate to regular Islam the way Christian Identity relates to Christianity.

Wrong. Regular Islam is the equivalent of Christian Identity. Difference being Christian Identity has 7 followers and Islam has 1.3 billion.

[Technogeeb]

Perhaps he is a good Muslim with reservations about some aspect of his religion, sort of like a lot of Christians that don't agree on everything

Islam isn't that kind of religion. Many aspect of Christian doctrine are subject to debate. For example, under Catholicism the Church is the authority of interpretation, and the anabaptist and protestant sects believe the bible itself is the final authority. Thus, the Christian religion is "mutable" in respect to the meaning of much scripture. Different individuals at different times can legitimately derive different meaning, and this is acceptable under the fundamental beliefs of the Christian Church.

This "interpretation" mechanism is simply not legitimately available under Islam. The "worst" verses of the bible can be explained away in context (and ironically, still hold meaning to the faithful), but such is not true of the Quran. Similarly, the Catholic church could choose to reinterpret some verses, but the sects of Islam have not done so (because the Quran is so clear in meaning that there really is no way that they could do so).

A "good muslim" that doesn't believe in Jihad against the infidels is theologically equivalent to a "good Christian" who doesn't believe in the divinity of Christ. They might call themselves Muslim (or Christian), but the fact would be that they ignore a core point of dogma. As such, they are not really a muslim. Of course, these "false muslims" can indeed be loyal, productive citizens of the United States. But those who believe in such a way are just as much a target of Jihad from the "real muslims" as Christians and Jews would be.

[F.J. Mitchell]

" Try and Fry."

That is a good one. The form of punishment meted out to the, ambush assasin, if/or when convicted, may well determine how many other sleeze bags feel willing to pay that price for the privilige of gunning down innocent people. Let the punishment deter the crime, if it doesn't, ratchet up the pain of the next execution until it does deter.

[Tall_Texan]

And what do you bet that Al Jazeera is now reporting that two Jews were arrested....

[Semaphore Heathcliffe]

looks like Rush is reading over your shoulder, man. Check out post 233. ;)

[stuartcr]

Sorry, I disagree. I believe that the Koran is open to interpretation. There are at least 6 different Islamic sects that I can think of. All religion is interpretive, just by definition.