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To: jgrubbs
An expert on ancient inscriptions is claiming that the wording on a first-century burial box -- ``James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus'' -- refers to Jesus of Nazareth.

If the artifact is authentic, it raises two questions: Who was James? And did Jesus have a brother and other siblings?

The Gospels call James the ``brother'' of Jesus, and other New Testament books say he later led the Jerusalem church.

The second question is trickier and involves a three-sided church debate.

Protestants traditionally read the New Testament as meaning Mary gave birth to Jesus as a virgin and then had James, three other sons and at least two daughters with Joseph.

In accord with church fathers writing after the New Testament era, the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics teach Mary's ``perpetual virginity,'' which means she and Joseph never had marital relations.

The Orthodox think Joseph had James by his first wife, and after she died he married Mary -- whose only child was the virgin-born Jesus. Thus, James was Jesus' stepbrother.

Catholics commonly hold that James was merely Jesus' close relative, perhaps the son of Joseph's brother Clopas or a cousin on Mary's side. The new inscription, if authentic, would rule out that option.

11 posted on 10/21/2002 9:26:24 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
I agree with the Protestants, I think James was Jesus' son, and I think he had other brothers and sisters. The Roman Catholics don't believe this because then it would mean that Mary is just like any other woman, and not a "holy perpetual virgin" that they can worship.
16 posted on 10/21/2002 9:30:43 AM PDT by jgrubbs
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To: Dog Gone
Impressive post, sir.
24 posted on 10/21/2002 9:37:27 AM PDT by Carry_Okie
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To: All
Mat 13:55 "How is this possible?" the people exclaimed. "He's just a carpenter's son, and we know Mary his mother and his brothers--James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas.

Mat 13:56 And his sisters--they all live here. How can he be so great?"

Mat 27:56 Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of James and John (the sons of Zebedee).

Mark 6:3 "He's just a carpenter, Mary's boy, and a brother of James and Joseph, Judas and Simon. And his sisters live right here among us." And they were offended!

Mark 6:4 Then Jesus told them, "A prophet is honored everywhere except in his hometown and among his relatives and by his own family."

Mark 16:1 The next evening, when the Sabbath ended, Mary Magdalene and Salome and Mary the mother of James went out and purchased embalming spices.

Mark 16:2 Early the following morning, just at sunrise, they carried them out to the tomb.
53 posted on 10/21/2002 10:05:35 AM PDT by Ready2go
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To: Dog Gone
An expert on ancient inscriptions is claiming that the wording on a first-century burial box -- ``James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus'' -- refers to Jesus of Nazareth.

If the artifact is authentic, it raises two questions: Who was James? And did Jesus have a brother and other siblings?

The Gospels call James the ``brother'' of Jesus, and other New Testament books say he later led the Jerusalem church.

The second question is trickier and involves a three-sided church debate.

Protestants traditionally read the New Testament as meaning Mary gave birth to Jesus as a virgin and then had James, three other sons and at least two daughters with Joseph.

In accord with church fathers writing after the New Testament era, the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics teach Mary's ``perpetual virginity,'' which means she and Joseph never had marital relations.

The Orthodox think Joseph had James by his first wife, and after she died he married Mary -- whose only child was the virgin-born Jesus. Thus, James was Jesus' stepbrother.

Catholics commonly hold that James was merely Jesus' close relative, perhaps the son of Joseph's brother Clopas or a cousin on Mary's side. The new inscription, if authentic, would rule out that option.


If the artifact is genuine, then it is another confirmation of the Gospel accounts and says nothing about any of the various "interpretations". These stand or fall on their own merit. The most direct route to take is that New Testament accounts actually describe what they purport to describe. It is because of doctrines adopted many decades to hundreds of years after the middle of the first century that such "interpretations" become necessary. They aren't, however, necessitated by information contained in the New Testament texts.
79 posted on 10/21/2002 10:51:39 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Dog Gone
In my Presbyterian Christian singles group, the minister did say that Jesus had siblings and that they are mentioned in the Bible (not to any great extent).

Could you stand the pressure? "Why can't you be like you brother"? (but actually I guess that we are called upon to be more like Him).

97 posted on 10/21/2002 11:45:20 AM PDT by weegee
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To: Dog Gone
The Orthodox think Joseph had James by his first wife, and after she died he married Mary -- whose only child was the virgin-born Jesus. Thus, James was Jesus' stepbrother.

The term brother can be used to designate step-brothers or cousins depending on language and culture and in the Bible it is frequent usage.

149 posted on 10/21/2002 1:23:35 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Dog Gone

It is common in many cultures and especially today in Slavic cultures to refer to one's 1st cousins as sisters and brothers.

The inscription would not rule out James as a 1st cousin because it is rare that anyone other than the father would be included.

For example the sarcophagus of Barsabbas was discovered last century in the Kidron valley possibly referring to a person that replaced an apostle in ACTs. The only other marking on the sarcophagus was a cross.

So the inclusion of 'brother of Jesus' may have been nothing more than a distinction that went beyond inscribing a cross.


278 posted on 06/25/2006 7:04:06 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: Dog Gone

"In accord with church fathers writing after the New Testament era, the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholics teach Mary's ``perpetual virginity,'' which means she and Joseph never had marital relations."

Do the writings of "church fathers" have more credence/authority/credibility than the New Testament itself?


293 posted on 06/25/2006 8:27:38 AM PDT by DennisR (Look around - God is giving you countless observable clues of His existence!)
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To: Dog Gone

This was destroyed as being a fraud several times over.


340 posted on 06/26/2006 9:37:32 AM PDT by Military family member (GO Colts!!)
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