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How to end the war against divorced dads
National Post ^ | March 28, 2000 | Donna Laframboise

Posted on 10/20/2002 2:50:24 PM PDT by RogerFGay


How to end the war against divorced dads

Donna Laframboise
National Post

Over the past three days, the National Post has examined the myth of the "deadbeat dad." We've shown how divorced fathers doing everything in their power to live up to their financial obligations are treated disgracefully by the authorities.

How can a system so badly flawed be fixed? How can we stop the misconceived war against divorced dads that is driving good men toward bankruptcy, despair and suicide?


(Excerpt) Read more at fact.on.ca ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
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To: Motherbear
"That's why the statistics seem to be highly in favor of single fathers.:

the other ignored fact is that children of mothers who are living with their boyfriends are at high risk BECAUSE of the boyfriends...who are MALE....

males with no attachment to kids are the most dangerous people to have in a household....

Perhaps we should have a law that parents can not have boyfriends/girlfriends in the same house as their children???? ...

same for both sexes....no girlfriends and no boyfriends....

then again, wouldn't it be simplier to just marry well and stay married....so much easier, folks

81 posted on 10/23/2002 1:57:20 AM PDT by cherry
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To: Looking for Diogenes
What is the problem needing solution? You seem mostly concerned with protecting the rights of divorced dads, a noble and important goal. The larger problem is single parent households and how to fund the costs of child support. Reducing the number of single parent households cures much of the problem. Until we achieve that goal, we need to make sure that the parents, and not the taxpayers, bear the burden of child-support.

I hope my lengthy posts have not been completely wasted. You say I "seem most concerned with protecting the rights of divorced fathers" .. but .... It amazes me that Americans seem no longer to have any understanding of the meaning of the term "rights." The federal and state constitutions forbid govenment from violating individual rights. That's what has made the US unique among nations. It is what made the US a "free country."

You go on to discuss a speculative policy goal; reducing welfare dependence by enforcing child support. It may be somewhat beside the point that we had child support laws and enforcement before 1975. You seem convinced, contradictory to all actual evidence, that either we didn't have or they didn't work. The point is, that whatever the laws, our system forbids violation of individual rights. On the other point, whether a new policy will improve things, whether it's beside the point or not, it hasn't. They lied about the problem prior to 1975 in order to create the new system. They're still lying about it today in order to expand the new system and to keep the federal funding flowing.

But the real point is, the use of the socialist model as a replacement for the constitutional system. Sure, in the socialist model, you can take the course of action you seem to support. Government can "social engineer" through micromanagement; typically done to the disadvantage of selected "groups." Sure -- you might be interested in the "rights" of this "group" of people they can say, but test a perceived value of those rights directly against policy goals, and eliminate they rights if they are imagined to be inconvinient. "Efficiency" of the bureacracy is more important than "rights." "Rights" in non-US systems often mean merely some legislated entitlement; not "unalienable rights" as defined in the Constitution.

That is revolutionary thinking, with that word "revolutionary" used in the strongest, most literal sense. You are electing to overturn the constitution entirely in favor of the socialist concept of "democracy" where the rule of government has no boundaries.
82 posted on 10/23/2002 2:39:23 AM PDT by RogerFGay
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To: Looking for Diogenes
There is also statistical evidence of the increase in Welfare for single parent households, a problem that CSE seeks to address by forcing the parents, rather than the state, to pay for child support.

This is how the program is justified. However, most child support orders are established where the state would not otherwise provide public assistance. The orders, as they are currently established, have absolutely nothing to do with reimbursement, or avoidance of this cost to the state. It should have everything to do with the cost to the state, as that is their compelling interest to interfere with the private relationship between a parent and child.

A father has an obligation to support a child he has abandoned, but when the child is taken from him without fault on his part, he is under no obligation to support the other parent or reimburse the state. If the state must provide support money to a child when it is removed from the father's custody without fault, the state cannot impose an obligation as well. They should have left the child in the father's care.

The termination of parental rights is predicated on fault. When men figure this out, and assert their natural right to guardianship, mother custody will be rare, and a family will once again be secure in marriage. This is how a patriarchal society makes fathers and two parent families possible. Something the feminist would rather you didn't understand.

85 posted on 10/23/2002 7:48:57 AM PDT by right2parent
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To: RogerFGay
bump
86 posted on 10/23/2002 8:10:50 AM PDT by Red Jones
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To: Looking for Diogenes
>>The larger problem is single parent households and how to fund the costs of child support<<

So the problem is not single parent households at all.

The problem is single parent households where the single parent in question is incompetent to provide for children (shelter, safety, food, and spirituality).

It is our national policy of facilitating incompetent single parenthood that is the problem.Under no circumstances should the state, using parens patriae as justification, place a child in the care and custody of an adult who cannot make a living sufficient to support self and child(ren).

We never, never, never allowed this prior to the past thirty years. It has been a horrible mistake, and should be reversed immediately.

All of the other pathological consequences you have been discussing flow from this cosmically bad policy.

87 posted on 10/23/2002 8:21:30 AM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
Maybe just a presumption that the one who initiates the divorce does not get custody? A rebuttable presumption, but a presumption nonetheless . . .

My rebuttal to your rebuttal... There may be just causes for initiating a divorce.  However, why don't we get rid of no-fault divorce.  That way, a divorce can only be granted for cause (infidelity, abuse, etc.) or if both parties agree.  If the divorce is granted for cause, the offending party gets jacked.  But if the divorce is not for cause (mutually agreeable), then both parties would be obligated to work custodial issues out - without interference from the gov.
88 posted on 10/23/2002 8:23:04 AM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: cherry
>>Perhaps we should have a law that parents can not have boyfriends/girlfriends in the same house as their children???? ... same for both sexes....no girlfriends and no boyfriends....<<

The girlfriends aren't dangerous. In fact, they are usually helpful to the father.

The problem isn't intimate partenrs, anyway.

The problem is incompetency to protect your child(ren). A man who would permit a psychopath to move in with his children has demonstrated incompetency to protect them (this is, of course, quite unusual if it in fact ever occurs).

OTOH, abuse of children by their mother's boyfriends is so very common that it accounts in large part for the fact that a child in the custody of a single mother is many times more likely to be raped or murdered than a child in the custody of two parents, or its father.

Single motherhood should be prohibited.

89 posted on 10/23/2002 8:27:30 AM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: Motherbear
I completely agree, but I can assure you that it won't be most of the men here who stand up for the rights of those families. Godly men, yes; guys who are looking for there next hit at the local bar, no.

There is no longer any incentive for a man to look for a chaste bride. He is not looking for one at the local bar. Hence, the old "double standard" women are going to have to live with. It is the woman who is ultimately responsible for her chastity(marriagability).

With no-fault divorce and mother custody (mostly), only the father is held to his promise to support his family. It is too well known society no longer enforces the wife's promise to be faithful. Father custody provides that enforcement mechanism, along with the states willingness to enforce adultery laws, and with civil actions for alienation of affection and criminal conversation.

I think most men still would like to have a family of their own, but until the state supports a stable marriage, its too risky. All that leaves for men is good times at the bar.

90 posted on 10/23/2002 9:23:40 AM PDT by right2parent
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To: Mr. K
How does $1800/mo in child support wipe out a million dollar nest egg?
91 posted on 10/23/2002 9:29:08 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: Iron Eagle
Reprodution tax, Divoce tax.....all held in TRUST of course...
clue: Social Security Tax held in lock box trust...this was pilfered long ago by the democrats...

Two new cash cows won't help them(demos) in their rehabilitation either, because Republicans have been jealous of them ever since. It would be a competitive thing.

Giving money and power to Government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. -- P.J. O'Rourke

97 posted on 10/23/2002 12:10:12 PM PDT by hosepipe
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To: Jim Noble
It is our national policy of facilitating incompetent single parenthood that is the problem.Under no circumstances should the state, using parens patriae as justification, place a child in the care and custody of an adult who cannot make a living sufficient to support self and child(ren).

AFDC was to support single mom households to allow dependent children to stay with her. Dependency was caused by the father's death, imprisonment, or abandonment. It was then assumed she could not work and support a child at the same time. Times have changed. A father is expected to be a provider, hence, no government assistance programs for him.

Parens patrae powers enable the state to take charge of abused, neglected, dependent children(dependent on the state for their support). Until the father is shown to be unfit, the state has no power to interfere. The state can't award custody to someone other than the father without taking custody from him (his by right). This is no insignificant interference with his natural right, requiring some sort of parental termination hearing, not like weighing "best interest criteria", reserved for placement of children who are already wards of the state.

If the father has abandoned them, and could have supported them, he should pay. If mom won't marry the man, she should surrender custody to the father or encumber her own family with the debt. The father has no obligation where he is denied custody.

98 posted on 10/23/2002 1:12:09 PM PDT by right2parent
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To: right2parent
>>AFDC was to support single mom households to allow dependent children to stay with her<<

But single mother households, as a class, are clearly incompetent to care for dependent children, even with AFDC. There was no justification for facilitating SMH then, and there is certainly none now, given what we have learned from this failed experiment.

If single father households had the same track record as SMHs do, they would be illegal.

99 posted on 10/23/2002 1:28:04 PM PDT by Jim Noble
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To: RogerFGay
According to Brave, even with all the mechanisms in place, fathers pay only 70-80% of the child support they are liable for. And that's according to the father's themselves. Do you have any statistics for how it was in 1975?

I certainly am not happy that we have to spend even that sum to make sure that fathers support their children. But you haven't given any proof that they would pay if there was not an enforcement mechanism.

Even the joint-custody approach which you endorse and I agree with, will only affect married parents. There still needs to be some mechanism for dealing with unmarried fathers.

100 posted on 10/23/2002 9:54:21 PM PDT by Looking for Diogenes
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