Posted on 10/20/2002 7:48:19 AM PDT by SamAdams76
The photos above currently on the Drudge site concern me. I followed the link and the article clearly stated that nobody was arrested last night.
Why then, do we have drivers of white vans, innocent civilians, evidently being pulled out vans at gunpoint and treated like dangerous criminals? One photo shows a man on the ground, evidently in handcuffs, with police officers standing over him as though they have just captured Whitey Bulger. When I first saw the photo, I figured the man was obviously a wanted criminal that police just so happened to come across during their search. But since there were no arrests last night, this man was obviously released and was no criminal after all.
The other photo shows a man by another white van with his hands in the air and a police officer has a gun drawn on him. Again, this was evidently just another innocent civilian who had the misfortune to be driving a white van on I-95 last night.
Now I understand the need for these roadblocks and for the police to be very thorough in their search for the sniper(s). But I cannot see the point of innocent people dragged out of their vehicles at gunpoint with no pretext other than the fact that they happen to be driving a white van.
Now maybe somebody here has an explanation why these two individuals were treated like criminals. Maybe they tried to evade the police or maybe they were driving stolen vans. But again, there were no arrests made last night. So what is the deal with our citizens being treated like Jesse James just for driving a white van?
Some people are as sharp as bowling balls.
When your house is on fire, they want to discuss whether the color of the curtains complement the wall color.
White vans are probable cause? What about "blue shirts"? Or "black hair"? Are they also probable cause?
A "white van with MD plates starting with the combo XYZ" would be probable cause. A white van absent any other details clearly is not.
And I'm not buying the fact those people were on the ground solely because they were driving white vans.
The 1:00AM press conference last night addressed this. A man was handcuffed and taken for questioning solely because his vehicle fit a particular description, according to the police spokesman.
The sniper is either avoiding roadblocks altogether or avoiding carrying any visible evidence with him when he goes through one. Police can throw up as many roadblocks as they like - they're not going to work. This guy has had weeks to consider the police response, and how to avoid being caught. He's certainly planned around these roadblocks.
You're spot on, Sam. I don't recall any announcement that the President of the United States has temporarily suspended the writ of habeus corpus in any section of the country.
And I'd bet money that if they did nothing, you'd be the first one here, carping about the police not doing their job. Face it, there is nothing they can do that will satisfy you.
From a smarter Freeper than I could ever hope to be:
To: Freeper 007
The forth amendment bans unreasonable search and seizure.
With 12 people shot and more likely to be shot, stopping every vehicle in the area for search and or seizure is not unreasonable.
The 4th amendment does not bar searching every possible suspect in a crime, it bars searches of people who could not be suspects. Unless you can show that you could not be a suspect in these crimes, the cops would be derelict if they did not search everyone until they catch the killer.
Serial killers make searches of all people who could be the killer reasonable and idiots who can't read what the words on the constitution say look like the stupid fools they are.
4 posted on 10/20/02 12:01 AM Eastern by Common Tator
Tell us how you think it should be done and tell us if you would be willing to put your butt on the line to do these cops jobs.
I agree that the white van information is lame and I seriously doubt the sniper is driving a white van. But let's say we had a witness give a good vehicle description. How should the cops look for this vehicle at a roadblock???
Should they just go up to it and say, "please Mr. American, we don't want to inconvenience you, but are you the sniper?"
Get real!
Excuse me for butting in.....
Obviously you are not in law enforcement.
Unless one is a Salmon, it is advisable to go with the flow.
Many things in life have "no justification" (fair) and litigating is rather expensive. (unfair?)
Dear LE: Warthog is whining about his rights, so please, the next time there is a shooting....don't put up roadblocks, because Warthog may not be able to freely proceed to his/her intended location and thus his rights may be violated.
The next time, if a white van is seen leaving the scene of the crime...don't stop any white vans because you may be violating someone's rights.
The next time, if a sniper is seen leaving the scene with a rifle over his shoulder, don't stop him....he may simply be a hunter exercising his rights to bear arms.
In fact, LE...just wait and sit on your hands taking care not to investigate anyone because we wouldn't want to profile anyone now would we.
You're right Warthog, this sniper can't live forever...let's just wait until he dies of natural causes. In the meantime, zigzag!
I didn't say that he did. He said this man was handcuffed and detained because his vehicle fit a particular description. Better go back and read my initial post more carefully.
And I'd bet money that if they did nothing, you'd be the first one here, carping about the police not doing their job. Face it, there is nothing they can do that will satisfy you.
Nice logical fallacy. "I label you as unappeasable, therefore you are, therefore your argument carries no weight."
Better brush up on your debate skills.
I hope so too. Some on this thread sound almost like liberals.....too much whining. Their paranoia is too preemptive; they seem to forget that we are AT WAR, and extreme times call for extreme measures.
The police have been dealing with cold-blooded murderers since...well, since there were police. Yes, there is an element of risk in the job and police have been shot in the past. So I have regard for the officer's safety. But I cannot see how safety is enhanced by pulling a gun on every white van and ordering the occupants (so far, innocent civilians) face-down on the ground where they are handcuffed.
As others here have opined, chances are that the sniper(s) are going to have a clean vehicle. These snipers are too professional to sit in a roadblock otherwise. Do you seriously think that the snipers are going to sit on I-95 for five hours hoping that the cops don't check for the rifle that have stashed under the back seat? Of course not. If they were caught in a roadblock with the goods (the rifle), they'd either run into the woods or figure out some other way to dump the weapon during the roadblock. I would not be surprised if the snipers have already encountered roadblocks and passed through them with a smile.
Logic has nothing to do with behavior under duress and the pressure is on these guys to come up with a plan or a tactic to ease, even if only a little bit, the strain on the people whose daily lives there are now virtually on hold.
You and I and most people would not now be driving a white van in the commission of any crime unless we had just been released from the nuthouse, but the reports of sightings keep coming in, and the shootings have yet to stop.
This has been going on for 18 days while we all wait for a break in the case. Where does this guy live? What does he do when he isn't out hunting? Does he have friends, and if so, are they untempted by a half-million dollars reward?
What is hard for me to believe is that he woke up Wednesday morning, October 2, strapped on his iron and went out to secure his 15 minutes absent some deep, seething motive; if the authorities were to announce that they were to review all cases of domestic violence in the weeks before Oct 2 and request that all counselors in the whole area go back over their toughest cases to look for a man who had a redwood-sized chip on his shoulder maybe we could believe that there is some real plan of apprehension of the shooter in place.
As long as we see only knee-jerk reaction everytime this loose link breaks our collective chain, we can only expect more fear and distrust.
Those two pennies have been riding heavy in my pocket for some time now, glad to get rid of them.
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