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Drivers of White Vans are being treated as criminals
Vanity | Self

Posted on 10/20/2002 7:48:19 AM PDT by SamAdams76

The photos above currently on the Drudge site concern me. I followed the link and the article clearly stated that nobody was arrested last night.

Why then, do we have drivers of white vans, innocent civilians, evidently being pulled out vans at gunpoint and treated like dangerous criminals? One photo shows a man on the ground, evidently in handcuffs, with police officers standing over him as though they have just captured Whitey Bulger. When I first saw the photo, I figured the man was obviously a wanted criminal that police just so happened to come across during their search. But since there were no arrests last night, this man was obviously released and was no criminal after all.

The other photo shows a man by another white van with his hands in the air and a police officer has a gun drawn on him. Again, this was evidently just another innocent civilian who had the misfortune to be driving a white van on I-95 last night.

Now I understand the need for these roadblocks and for the police to be very thorough in their search for the sniper(s). But I cannot see the point of innocent people dragged out of their vehicles at gunpoint with no pretext other than the fact that they happen to be driving a white van.

Now maybe somebody here has an explanation why these two individuals were treated like criminals. Maybe they tried to evade the police or maybe they were driving stolen vans. But again, there were no arrests made last night. So what is the deal with our citizens being treated like Jesse James just for driving a white van?


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Virginia
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To: jwalsh07
If the police have information that a terrorist has just killed an American and they were seen in a white van, is that probable cause to search white vans attempting to leave the area?

No. Just like if the police had info the terrorist was wearing a blue shirt they could detain and search all people with blue shirts.

And if its not, how do they ever catch the skell?

Well, I put my ideas down in a post above. I believe it's #168.

441 posted on 10/20/2002 2:33:44 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: GirlShortstop
He looked Indian or Hispanic.
442 posted on 10/20/2002 2:34:01 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: NittanyLion
Well, absent probable cause the Constitution is actually in play.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Your constant misuse of the Constitution. You think probably cause is they have to know that YOU did something. To most of us, probable cause is driving a white van within a few minutes of a killing when the only clue the police have is that a white van was seen at the scene of other brutal murders committed in the same way. It's not like they're pulling over white vans all over the country just because they have nothing to do. They were pulling over white vans that were on the escape route the killer has been known to take.

As I said earlier, the Constitution was intended to govern a moral, law abiding people who could apply commonsense to a situation. I can see from your replies that you certainly lack that common sense.

443 posted on 10/20/2002 2:35:52 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: SamAdams76
Like I said before in this thread, we really have to catch these guys red-handed or within a few minutes of the attack. Or...through some old-fashioned detective legwork. (I assume they are doing that now.) But we can't just stop white vans all day long willy-nilly and pull guns on everybody. We have a Constitution in this country that protects the citizens from unlawful search and seizure. If all law enforcement has to go on is a "white van" then that's just not good enough. They need to dig a little deeper. Sorry, but that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Cincinatus' Wife: This morning we saw a driver sitting cuffed in the median today on U.S. 29 near Burtonsville, MD. Two cruisers had pulled him over and the police were looking over his white panel van with ladders on roof racks.

Looks like she just made your point, the Constitution is just a piece of paper these days, wait until this breaks out across the country and see what happens to our rights, and the sheep here will Amen it.

BigMack

444 posted on 10/20/2002 2:36:30 PM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PatrioticAmerican
Actually, I would like ladyinred to support the idea that, as a woman, she would support vice cops pulling her over when they perform hooker raids. She would then be handcuffed, placed face down on the pavement until her vehicle and purse were searched, and then she would be hauled to jail awaiting her trial. The charge? Being a prostitute. After all, she was caught equipped for the job and had money in her purse, but, then again, it is her opinion that people should be treated as guilty until they prove their innocence.

You know, you are really getting a little bit out of line here now. I don't particulary like some of the things you just said about me here. I have never hit the abuse button, but I am getting real close to it now. This saying I am equipped for the job is just a bit much. Knock it off.

445 posted on 10/20/2002 2:36:38 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
He looked Indian or Hispanic.

Thanks. Now we've got a first-hand clue... Wondering if there is no perp/s description/s because LE wants to get *many* cell members, not just a single shooter (at a time). Things that make ya go hmmmm.
446 posted on 10/20/2002 2:38:05 PM PDT by GirlShortstop
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To: HairOfTheDog
We still have no evidence anyone was thrown down.... just a reminder.

Hey, I'm dying for somebody to come here and prove me wrong about those two photos. I will be genuinely happy to hear if those two men in the photos had outstanding warrants or otherwise did something to deserve the treatment they got. If that was the case, I will be the first one to apologize to the law enforcement officials of Virginia for thinking they did something wrong. But if these two men were law-abiding good citizens and they forced out of their vehicles at gunpoint and ordered face-down to the pavement and handcuffed simply because they happened to be driving a white van that night...then I feel very sad about the state of our country. This is not the America I know and this is not the America I spent four years of my life defending in the United States Marine Corps.

I'm all for catching these snipers and then giving them the ultimate penalty. But if we trash the Constitution to do it, it is only a pyrrhic victory.

447 posted on 10/20/2002 2:39:08 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: SamAdams76
I personally believe that law enforcement knows a lot more about who might be carrying out these attacks then they let on.

So they just enjoy wasting their time on roadblocks holding the innocent citizenry? - Why on earth are they doing these roadblocks after these shootings if they know anything more about who is carrying out these attacks than they "let on"?

At least, I certainly hope so.

I wish. I do wish them luck though.

448 posted on 10/20/2002 2:39:33 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Wonder Warthog
Such heavy handed cop(gestapo)actions are abusive & sooo
unconstitutional not that ANY of them actually adhere to or follow that document or their oath to it at all.Whats the sound of the 4th amendment shredding?I saw on nightline
people in a BROWN van being accosted by 2 cops at gunpoint.
what these cops are doing is jst as lawless as the sniper & 2 wrongs dont make a right no way now how & is more chilling to me cause its done with a badge.SHAME.
449 posted on 10/20/2002 2:40:03 PM PDT by raysol
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To: PatrioticAmerican
Frankly, it has gotten to the point that citizens should have their guns drawn when involved with the police, as it is the police who shoot far many more innocent civilians than cops ever are shot.

Okie dokie, you first.....let us know how it works out for you.

450 posted on 10/20/2002 2:40:31 PM PDT by Velveeta
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To: HairOfTheDog
"So you don't have any suggestions? - You don't have a better idea?
"

Listen, I worked defense intel for many years. I could write books on catching hard to find people. I have 12 years investigative experience and damned well know that such strong arm tactics are both unecessary and prone to failure.

Again, if this was such a necessary action, then where are the bad guys? They did catch them, didn't they? No, they didn't, therefore, this was not a necessary action. They have done this dragnet several times and each time with no sucess. So much for your theory that this is good idea.

Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
451 posted on 10/20/2002 2:40:33 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Velveeta
"Okie dokie, you first.....let us know how it works out for you."

By your own statement, you are admit that cops are a dangerous bunch to go against.
452 posted on 10/20/2002 2:41:12 PM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: Velveeta
Toilet paper was invented by an evil racist white male named Scott.

Any 'person of color' who uses toilet paper is therefore supporting racism , intolerance and oppression - and is a traitor to his/her race.

If we are to achieve 'true equality' (as if this could ever exist), these people had better start practicing what they are preaching, and boycott any product or technology that was invented by evil white males.

DOWN WITH ALL THINGS WHITE! Boycott bread, marshmallows, clouds......etc.

(It's so wonderful to be a liberal, and therefore not be constrained by any degree of rationality - which was probably invented by some evil white males in ancient Greece or somewhere...)

Down with ancient Greece! Down with birch trees!... etc...etc...

453 posted on 10/20/2002 2:41:29 PM PDT by XLurk
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To: All
Cincinatus' Wife: This morning we saw a driver sitting cuffed in the median today on U.S. 29 near Burtonsville, MD. Two cruisers had pulled him over and the police were looking over his white panel van with ladders on roof racks.

Please forgive the awful structure of that sentence. The police were searching the van. The van had roof racks with ladders. This morning and today ......ah.

454 posted on 10/20/2002 2:41:32 PM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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To: McGavin999
See, this is what I'm talking about. Your constant misuse of the Constitution. You think probably cause is they have to know that YOU did something.

Yes. Or someone who closely fits your description. Perhaps a "white Chevy Astro van with MD plates and a yellow ladder on top" would constitute probable cause for vans fitting that description. Surely you can see that "all white vans" are an overly broad category?

To most of us, probable cause is driving a white van within a few minutes of a killing when the only clue the police have is that a white van was seen at the scene of other brutal murders committed in the same way.

I'm not aware that police had that clue. Indeed, they continue to play down the "white van" angle. In this most recent case, it seems to me no one even saw the sniper's vehicle.

It's not like they're pulling over white vans all over the country just because they have nothing to do. They were pulling over white vans that were on the escape route the killer has been known to take.

The "escape route the killer has been known to take"? To the best of my knowledge, this is the first kill in the Richmond/Ashland area. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As I said earlier, the Constitution was intended to govern a moral, law abiding people who could apply commonsense to a situation. I can see from your replies that you certainly lack that common sense.

Well, I read the Fourth Amendment, and took it at face value. You've inferred something that isn't stated. Yet my position lacks common sense? Hmmm...

455 posted on 10/20/2002 2:41:56 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: Texas Mom
Officer" Excuse me sir, are you the beltway shooter?
Drivers answers: No,
officer says, okay, I believe you.. Go on and have a nice day.

I absolutely agree with you. In fact, I would not be surprised at all if the snipers actually have gone through some of these roadblocks. But tell me, how is the end result any different when an officer pulls the driver out of the vehicle at gunpoint and has him lie face-down in the pavement? If the van is clean, the van is clean. The officers still have to let them go.

456 posted on 10/20/2002 2:41:57 PM PDT by SamAdams76
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To: HairOfTheDog
You know I can't believe that I was able to go to the gym, work out for over an hour, come home, get back on the site, and this arguement is still going on with nobody presenting any other arguements than "the Constitution is being suspended".
457 posted on 10/20/2002 2:42:06 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: HairOfTheDog
Why on earth are they doing these roadblocks after these shootings if they know anything more about who is carrying out these attacks than they "let on"?

Why does my 80 year old grandmother get searched at the airport? Window dressing.

458 posted on 10/20/2002 2:43:40 PM PDT by NittanyLion
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To: NittanyLion
I'm not aware that police had that clue. Indeed, they continue to play down the "white van" angle. In this most recent case, it seems to me no one even saw the sniper's vehicle.

Well, gee, I just can't understand why they wouldn't let YOU of all people in on what they know. Can you imagine that?

459 posted on 10/20/2002 2:44:03 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: XLurk
Down with ancient Greece! Down with birch trees!... etc...etc...   LOL  oh goodie, a white male bashing theme. All aboard the DU!  </sarcasm off>
460 posted on 10/20/2002 2:44:59 PM PDT by GirlShortstop
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