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Drivers of White Vans are being treated as criminals
Vanity | Self

Posted on 10/20/2002 7:48:19 AM PDT by SamAdams76

The photos above currently on the Drudge site concern me. I followed the link and the article clearly stated that nobody was arrested last night.

Why then, do we have drivers of white vans, innocent civilians, evidently being pulled out vans at gunpoint and treated like dangerous criminals? One photo shows a man on the ground, evidently in handcuffs, with police officers standing over him as though they have just captured Whitey Bulger. When I first saw the photo, I figured the man was obviously a wanted criminal that police just so happened to come across during their search. But since there were no arrests last night, this man was obviously released and was no criminal after all.

The other photo shows a man by another white van with his hands in the air and a police officer has a gun drawn on him. Again, this was evidently just another innocent civilian who had the misfortune to be driving a white van on I-95 last night.

Now I understand the need for these roadblocks and for the police to be very thorough in their search for the sniper(s). But I cannot see the point of innocent people dragged out of their vehicles at gunpoint with no pretext other than the fact that they happen to be driving a white van.

Now maybe somebody here has an explanation why these two individuals were treated like criminals. Maybe they tried to evade the police or maybe they were driving stolen vans. But again, there were no arrests made last night. So what is the deal with our citizens being treated like Jesse James just for driving a white van?


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Virginia
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To: Howlin
If a warrant for a search was produced, then I would open my trunk, i.e., there better be a judge or judges on call to issue those warrants considering the circumstances, otherwise what is being done is unconstitutional.

Obviously, you don't mind that people get dragged out of their cars.

Invoke Godwin's Law all you like. A glib dismissal seems to be your MO from reading your other posts the past few years.

So, out of curiosity, what do you consider 'good citizenship', doing everything the authorities tell you to do?

341 posted on 10/20/2002 12:11:06 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: Tench_Coxe
I consider caring about my fellow citizens and my country more than I care about my self to be good citizenship.

And I wouldn't be using terms like "glib dismissals" if I was equating people with Nazi Germany.

342 posted on 10/20/2002 12:17:49 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: Howlin
Oh don't you just love when people start calling you a Nazi? Well, this thread is obviously sputtering to an end, it really gets boring when people start throwing the Nazi tag around. Think I'll go to the gym. See you later.
343 posted on 10/20/2002 12:19:47 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: Howlin
Did someone get "dragged" out of a car? Did I miss something?
344 posted on 10/20/2002 12:26:29 PM PDT by DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
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To: Tench_Coxe
No one has been dragged out of cars in this scenario on this thread.

And it is not unconstitutional to ask to search a vehicle... I am going to bet that most of the searches were done with consent by the owners.

Nor is it unconstitutional to search if there is probable cause. It is arguable that there is such cause in the case of people leaving the scene of a shooting who meet the best description they've got.

We have a visceral emotional reaction to people submitting to orders of the state. We have seen pictures of people submitting to orders in other countries and you think this is the same. It is not the same. There is a killer out there... and he was within minutes of this place when they shut it down. That we know. Who it was, we don't know. Let the cops try to find him. They aren't out to get what is in your trunk, they are trying to find the killer.
345 posted on 10/20/2002 12:27:08 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: DAnconia55
Photo posting skills, maybe...

How utterly unoriginal.

And I did SO care what you thought of me.

346 posted on 10/20/2002 12:34:23 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: DaughterOfAnIwoJimaVet
No, you did not. It's all rampant hyperbole used to back up the usual suspects agenda.
347 posted on 10/20/2002 12:35:12 PM PDT by Howlin
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To: McGavin999
I keep hearing people quote "if you care more about security then liberty, then you deserve neither". That's twisting words to suit a message

No, it's EXACTLY the point.

No matter what crisis, real or manufactured - sheeple leap to give away their rights in exchange for safety.

348 posted on 10/20/2002 12:38:30 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: McGavin999
As far as I'm concerned, those who lack the commonsense to recognize the seriousness of the situation and cooperate are from the bottom of the gene pool and deserve what they get

BTW, 10 or so dead people isn't 'serious' enough to suspend the Constitution.

349 posted on 10/20/2002 12:39:12 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: You Gotta Be Kidding Me
"cops are lazy and not very smart"

Well ... I guess that shows what you know!!
350 posted on 10/20/2002 12:39:42 PM PDT by CyberAnt
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To: luvtheconstitution
Being held at gunpoint and handcuffed until they determine who I am and what's in my vehicle is reasonable behavior for the police. It's fine with me. You betcha.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Love your screen name.
351 posted on 10/20/2002 12:42:10 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: Tench_Coxe
'good citizenship', doing everything the authorities tell you to do?   baaa baaaa    
352 posted on 10/20/2002 12:42:13 PM PDT by GirlShortstop
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To: rintense
I am truly curious as to what your solution would be, particularly how you would catch the sniper without violating the rights.

Pssst. If you can't catch him without doing so, then you don't catch him. That's what the Law is for.

Perhaps we should just randomly torture citizens for information. After all, if you can catch the sniper by violating rights....

353 posted on 10/20/2002 12:43:43 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: HairOfTheDog
What set me off was the implication by another poster that one is not 'a good citizen' if he or she was to refuse a search. Thus the 'good German' comment. I've been reading statist tripe from that same source for several years now, and resent it. I'll ignore that indivdual from now on.

Now, back to the substance of the argument... If the owner consents to a search without being coerced, that is one thing. I agree with your statement: 'It is arguable that there is such cause in the case of people leaving the scene of a shooting who meet the best description they've got.'

Agreed, we have a situation in which there is a killer. Also agreed that there is nothing wrong with someone consenting to a search ( I qualify this with the word 'uncoerced'--the officer(s) explaining the situation of why ), considering the circumstances.

What does concern me is the almost casual attitude that is displayed with respect to the rights of those individuals, be they simply cantankerous or sticklers for their rights, who refuse to be searched. There is too much of this going on in the United States under the rubric of 'security' or 'maintaining the public good', or 'its for the children'. At the risk of some other idiot invoking Godwin's Law, historically these crisis situations are the ones in which rights are in the most danger. I support the efforts of law enforcement to nail the b*****d who is doing this, but that support stops when overzealous law enforcement may find obtaining a search warrant 'inconvenient'.

And I also agree that I have a visceral reaction to those pictures. It doesn't look in those photographs as though those folks consented to being searched. Perhaps they did, but the guns in the pictures sure don't seem to indicate it.

354 posted on 10/20/2002 12:46:14 PM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: Howlin
Let's see: the choice is 1) open my trunk, or 2) let perhaps hundreds MORE people die.

Unless you're the sniper, this is illogical.

And it's taken 2 weeks to kill 10.

So hundreds would take a year. And still wouldn't be a fraction of the 'regular' killings that go on each year.

All a good reason to just throw away the Constitution, right?

355 posted on 10/20/2002 12:46:21 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: PatrioticAmerican
How do the police know the drivers are innocent? " Are you really that stupid or didn't you read what you wrote?

Worse. She votes.

356 posted on 10/20/2002 12:49:23 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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To: HairOfTheDog
You are getting a lot of mileage out of that! ;~D

I know, I'll stop it, just made me so mad! :-)

357 posted on 10/20/2002 12:51:21 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: oldironsides
Seedy? People that work for a living often look like that.
You must hang out with Hootie in Georgia and wear a green jacket and yellow pants with geese on them each day?

If you checked than you would have noticed I was replying to post #54. The poster said the persons in th picture look seed.I did not

358 posted on 10/20/2002 12:52:45 PM PDT by Kaslin
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To: DAnconia55
That's what the Law is for.   now you're talking *crazy*.</sarcasm off>   btw:
359 posted on 10/20/2002 12:53:30 PM PDT by GirlShortstop
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To: McGavin999
there's a madman out there who is intent on picking us off one by one

lol... try breathing into a paper bag.

270,000,000 /10 / 10 = 270,000 days to kill us all.
Assuming no one breeds.

Might as well suspend the rest of the Constitution NOW!

360 posted on 10/20/2002 12:57:10 PM PDT by DAnconia55
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